Do you want to achieve a sense of fulfillment and satisfaction in your life beyond just professional success? Evan Herrman shares the key solution to help you attain that ultimate goal.
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Re-imagine success and cultivate a lifestyle that cherishes well-rounded growth and balance.
- Learn to apply an all-encompassing approach and unveil the best version of you.
- Find love towards your own self, exploring transformative personal change.
- Let your decisions echo your intrinsic values and existential purpose.
- Bring transformation by adopting the right goal-setting practices, imbibing self-forgiveness, and tracking your progress.
My special guest is Evan Herrman who is a unique voice providing guidance and inspiration to those seeking more from life. Balancing his career in real estate with the insightful teachings of his Whole Person Podcast, Evan’s approach to success is one that pays equal attention to all aspects of life – from family to finance, fitness to faith, and friendships to fun.
Drawing on his conversations with prominent figures in various industries, he shares strategies and lessons on creating equilibrium in life, achieving success in a holistic way.
Evan Herrman joins us to discuss redefining success and achieving a balanced life. Evan shares his insights on living in balance, drawing inspiration from an interview with Mark Cuban. The conversation focuses on the importance of the whole-person approach, encompassing faith, family, finances, friendship, fitness, and fun.
Throughout the episode, key topics include self-love, aligning decisions with purpose, setting goals, and showing oneself grace. I even introduce Covey’s Time Management Quadrant, a four-quadrant framework for task prioritization, shedding light on the impact of focusing on not-urgent but important tasks.
This episode is especially relevant to corporate professionals seeking work-life balance and personal fulfillment. Listeners will gain valuable strategies to live a meaningful and fulfilling life beyond the confines of professional success.
Table of Contents
Chapters
00:01:28 – The Whole Person Podcast
00:04:20 – Learning from a conversation with Mark Cuban
00:06:26 – Loving Yourself Through Change
00:07:45 – Setting Goals and Extending Grace
00:13:48 – The Importance of Being Present
00:14:36 – Letting Go of Distractions
00:16:07 – Dopamine and Mental Health
00:18:16 – Viewing Anxiety as a Gift
00:21:14 – One Degree Method
00:28:00 – Importance of Taking Time
Evan Herrman – The Whole Person Host
Evan Herrman is the podcast host of the Whole Person Podcast and a real estate broker. Evan Specializes in personal growth and wholeness in the areas of faith, family, finances friendship, fitness, and fun.
His goal and purpose is to encourage men through personal growth that brings about healthy relationships, a clear vision and purpose in their lives, knowing their identity, leverage their gifts all with a focus on living a life worth living.
He also understands that men may have past pains and traumas that need healing from a whole-person approach to their lives where many of us may have compensated through a career pursuit, avoiding or sabotaging relationships, and not risking vulnerability with those who are closest to us.
Resources
Subscribe on your favorite podcast player.
Follow Evan Herrman on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
And, if you’re looking for a new home in the Tulsa, Oklahoma area, Evan is highly recommended by his past clients and community, EvanHerrman.com.
Other episodes and articles you’ll enjoy:
Life at 40 and Fired Up from World Domination Summit Sara McDaniel – BtR 142
How Ken Carfagno Left His Dream Job to Start a Cleaning Business – BtR 299
SWOT Analysis for a Healthy Marriage – BtR 293
Connect with me:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/beyondtherut
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/beyondtherut
Twitter: https://twitter.com/beyondtherut
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerrydugan/
Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating on Apple Podcasts.
Transcript
00:00:00 – Evan Herrman
Be a blessing wherever you go, even if it costs you something. When you focus on other people’s wants and needs and not your own, you tend to live a more fulfilled life.
00:00:12 – Jerry Dugan
Do you feel like you’re stuck in a rut in life or in a dead end job with no progression? I’m Jerry Dugan, and welcome to beyond the Rut, the podcast that offers you the motivation, inspiration, and practical tool to help you build life worth living. My show is here to help you break free from your limitations and find a path to success. Join me as I share encouraging stories and actionable advice on how to get out of your rut in life and create a vision for your future. Life is just too short to live stuck in a rut. Here we go. Hey, rudder nation. This is your host Jerry Dugan, and we’re going to be joined by special guest Evan Herrman. He’s the host of a show called the Whole Person Podcast. I had the pleasure of meeting him at Podcast Movement 2022. And as I get ready to leave for Podcast Movement 2023, I figured I may as well get this episode out now. Now, what we’re going to be talking about in this episode is redefining success so that you’re succeeding as a whole person. You’re not just climbing your corporate ladder. You’re not just hitting a target amount in your net worth. You’re not just getting a degree. It’s all those things coming together to define what you want in your life. And then on top of that, we’re going to share a very surprising lesson he learned from Mark Cuban in a five minute interview that he got to do. Because we always talk about balance between work and life and just balance in all the different buckets of your life. But just what if finding that balance meant that you had to go out of balance in another area? What does he mean by that? I don’t know. It’s up to you to decide. So grab a notebook and a pen, sit back, relax, and here we go. All right. Hey, Evan. How are you doing on the other side of town?
00:02:03 – Evan Herrman
Dude, I’m great. How are you?
00:02:04 – Jerry Dugan
Good. So we met, though, at Podcast Movement in August 2022 at a session, and it turned out as we got to talking with each other, our shows are very similar. We talk about how do you pursue that success in your business or your career, but also don’t miss out on the rest of what life has to offer. So it’s that whole person approach to, like I call it like the five F’s, your faith, your family, your fitness, your finances, and your future growth and possibilities. So it’s succeeding in your career, business, or whatever your dream or your pursuit is, and having success in those five areas of your life. And then your show is the whole person podcast. By day, I believe you’re a realtor or a broker dealing with real estate. And then by I guess all the other time you have when you’re not selling homes and closing deals, you’re working on this show. So tell us about the Whole Person podcast. I know you’ve had Eric Nevins on the show, so I at least have that kind of connection there. But tell our listeners about that show.
00:03:07 – Evan Herrman
So in general, I’ve had some amazing guests. So yes, Eric Nevins has been on. Have you heard of Kevin? Sorbo? He played Hercules back in the 90s. He’s been on my show. Kevin Miller, the host of self helpful formerly Ziggler Dan Miller. I’ve had Michael Hyatt. I’ve had Dr. Benjamin Hardy. Dude, the list goes on. I’ve had some amazing guests on my show. And what it all focuses around. You said you have the five F’s. Well, I have the six F’s, and it’s faith, family, finances, friendship, fitness, and fun. And we can correlate that down to even three, which is spirit, mind, and body. And so the Whole Person focuses on the spirit, the mind and the body of being healthy and whole in all those areas. And much like an airplane, we always try to live this balanced life. But actually a plane is never in balance. It’s consistently counterbalancing. And it’s learning how to counterbalance life and learn how to live out of balance, to actually create equilibrium. And that’s something that I actually learned from Golly what’s his name from Shark Tank? Mark Cuban. Oh yeah, yeah, dude, I interviewed Mark Cuban once and it’s the only audio that failed.
00:04:27 – Jerry Dugan
Oh man.
00:04:27 – Evan Herrman
My entire career podcasting, which was really a bummer, it’s like, how do you go back?
00:04:33 – Jerry Dugan
Hey, you want to do this again?
00:04:35 – Evan Herrman
Yeah, well, he only gave me five minutes the first time.
00:04:38 – Jerry Dugan
Oh man.
00:04:38 – Evan Herrman
And so I had a great five know, but the audio failed. But anyway, I asked him, how do you live in balance? And he goes, Well, I actually learned how to live out of balance. And he’s so focused on career at the beginning stages of his life that it actually enabled him to live in balance. And I started thinking about that if my health is out of whack, how many other areas of my life does it affect? Every area. So if I over focus on my health, then that benefits every other area of my life. If I’m going through mental issues, then I need to focus on my mental health and then that actually helps every other area. So it’s learning how to actually live life out of balance, to actually have equilibrium. And so sometimes it will be drastic, sometimes it won’t be, but at the end it’s learning how to have peace because I think that’s what we’re all searching for and that’s what the Whole Person podcast is all about. And I interview some of the greatest people in the world who have a lot of success by the world standards, but from appearances also understand how to have peace in that. And so that’s what the whole person podcast is. And I’m not arrived. It’s also a part of my journey and what I’m learning through the process and the things that I share, like, hey, don’t do this because I learned the hard way and sharing some of my own life examples as well.
00:05:59 – Jerry Dugan
Yeah. What would you say are some of the top three takeaways you’ve learned and applied to your life from the guests that you’ve been interviewing on your show?
00:06:08 – Evan Herrman
Yeah, so I would say to learn to love myself through the process of change because so many of us have this desired future self and because we’re not that person. We hate who we are now, but we’ll never be that future self if we don’t know how to love ourselves now, because that future self loves himself. And so that’s the difference. That’s called the gap in the gain. The gap is what you measure compared to what you don’t have, but living in the gain is comparing to everything that you have accomplished. And so that’s loving yourself through the process of change. Then another thing, this one really was very simple and it was very dumbfounding. Dr. Angela Duckworth, she wrote one of the best selling books called Grit. And I can’t remember if this was on camera or off camera. I want to say it was off camera, but she asked me what’s my purpose in life? And I said, to live out the heart of God by loving others back to life. And then she said, well, do you filter all your decisions through that? And I said, no. She goes, well, if that’s your purpose, you need to filter all decisions through that. And so it’s learning to love myself, learning how to make decisions. And then the next thing for me that has been extremely helpful is learning to set goals. But when I fall short, to extend grace to myself, because sometimes I strive for perfection. And when I can’t be perfect, it stops me and it keeps me from moving forward. However, if I can live with setting high goals and realize, you know what, these aren’t set in stone. These are malleable and life is malleable. So I can massage these any way I want and realize, like, this is what I’m going to do. And I’ll be honest, the past two weeks have been incredible for that because I started this new thing called Bullet Journaling. Many of you, you know what a journal is, where you write your thoughts and feelings and stuff down. And I’ve always had a hard time being consistent at that. But what I did with the Bullet Journal is I created a list of like 15 habits that I’ve been trying to implement in my life. And I have a 30 day tracker and then I mark through it. Did I do this, yes or no? Did I do this today, yes or no? If it’s yes, it’s green, if it’s red, it’s not. And so then at the end of the month, I get to see how well I did and then I measure my days like, was today a green day or a red day? Did I get my goal? Not goals, but did I get these habits done? Yes or no? And what I realized is, one, I have way too many habits that I’m trying to implement in my life. And no wonder why I feel like crap, because when I can’t do them all, I feel bad. So what I realized is like, you know what, I’m just going to try my best and I’m going to try to have more green days than red days. And that’s my whole goal. And just try to consistently do that. And then the other thing about this bullet Journaling process and becoming my future self that has been extremely helpful is learn how to set goals and objectives and break them down quarterly. So from yearly to quarterly to monthly to weekly and then to daily, and to only set myself two to three main things I want to accomplish per day and then have three things per week I want to really have accomplished. So, for example, today, this is one of the things I want to accomplish. And then I have class and then also lead generate for real estate. Those are my three things. And if I can get those three things done, today was a productive day. And so it’s not a to do list, it’s these are my goals today that actually move the needle forward and then on to do lists. I have separate things for that. But the to do list isn’t urgent. What’s urgent and important is the three main goals that move things forward. Because so many times we get distracted from our goals by lesser goals. And so the bullet journaling has transformed my life.
00:10:01 – Jerry Dugan
I love that. I love that you squeezed in. There a little reference to Franklin Covey’s four quadrants as well. For those who aren’t aware of that.
00:10:11 – Evan Herrman
I’m not aware of it.
00:10:12 – Jerry Dugan
Just really? No way.
00:10:13 – Evan Herrman
Okay, yeah, I’m not aware of what you’re about to say, so go for it. I’m really interested now.
00:10:18 – Jerry Dugan
So now you can go around and say, yeah, Franklovey says anyway. So if you look at your tasks and the things you want to accomplish, you got your two axes on one of them, is it urgent or not urgent? And then on the other axis is important, not important. And then, so it gives you four quadrants, urgent, important, urgent, not important, and then not urgent, important, not urgent, not important. And what tends to take up all your time or a lot of your time is the urgent part. So urgent things that are important, urgent things that are not important. So examples of urgent things that are important could be your boss comes in and needs a report in the next 4 hours, that’s the guy who signs off on your paycheck. You got to drop it and get it done. Urgent, not important. Could be somebody comes up to you asking for help, for something they really could solve for themselves, but maybe they don’t have the confidence and they just use you as a crutch.
00:11:22 – Evan Herrman
That all makes sense.
00:11:24 – Jerry Dugan
Yeah. And so we wind up helping them putting their fire out. You also put out your boss’s fire, but then when you look at your own career growth, your company’s growth, the things that really are going to propel everything forward are going to be in the not urgent important category. And those are the things like take care of my health, take a course, pick up a certification, all the things that are going to move the needle forward for yourself and whoever you work with.
00:11:51 – Evan Herrman
And what is this called?
00:11:52 – Jerry Dugan
The four I forget what franklin Covey is the guy who came up with it. It’s in all of this programs, like professional development stuff, but it’s like the four quadrants of something I have to go get myself.
00:12:07 – Evan Herrman
Well, one, I’m going to go read that. But here’s another thing to what you’re saying too. It’s not just about productivity in my work because I also over the last four or five days was on vacation. And so you know what was in there? Rest. Oh yeah, have fun. Build out my garden. I just built a massive mammoth of a garden the other day and so that was on my important list, like my three important things for today. And so even if it’s scheduling and fun, that was my 6th F. That’s important because fun also is vital to function. And function is.
00:12:48 – Jerry Dugan
That yeah, and I love it. It’s the Franklin Covey time management matrix.
00:12:54 – Evan Herrman
I’m going to have to go check that out.
00:12:55 – Jerry Dugan
Yeah, I have to put that in the show notes now that I brought it up. But I love that you’re pointing out also the importance of rest and fun and that you have that 6th F of fun. Because at the end of my life, I’m not going to be excited about all the emails, all the times I got to inbox zero. I remember people talking about inbox zero left and right. And I would pride myself for the first two or three days I pulled it off, but they just started creating anxiety for me and I started realizing I can’t get through every single email every single day. That’s just stupid. Let me just time block, boom, boom, boom. And maybe on a Friday I’ll spend an hour getting to inbox zero. But I don’t have to respond to every single email. I don’t have to read every single email. And at the end of my life, I’m not going to care that I got to inbox zero every day. That’s not going to matter. But what’s going to matter is stuff like was I there for my daughter’s birthday? Was I there for my son’s wedding? Whatever it is. Was I there for those things? And did I have a good time there or was I disengaged somewhere else, thinking about work or productivity?
00:14:07 – Evan Herrman
That’s why it’s so important to apply, whether it’s journaling time, blocking those things into your schedule. Because if it’s not in your schedule, it doesn’t exist.
00:14:16 – Jerry Dugan
Exactly.
00:14:17 – Evan Herrman
And so something that I’ve learned over the past month, my wife and I spend a lot of time together, but we’re on our phones, so we’re not really together. And I’ll tell you what, I deleted one app from my phone, and it gave me back 3 hours and 30 minutes a day.
00:14:36 – Jerry Dugan
What was the app?
00:14:38 – Evan Herrman
TikTok.
00:14:39 – Jerry Dugan
Oh, man. I got a big decision to make.
00:14:41 – Evan Herrman
And people spend 3 hours and 30 minutes a day on TikTok. Yeah, I guess I did. Because what I end up doing is if I’m on the toilet, I’m watching TikTok. If we’re watching TV together, I’m on TikTok. I try to find different points of time when I’m not doing. But here’s what it was doing to me. Even though I was using TikTok in non purposeful times of work, it kept me from being present or focused on the task at hand. Whether that was going to the I’ll give grace to anyone going to the bathroom. But watching a TV show Meal Time Family, I just realized that I was on it because I liked learning. I liked being entertained. And so I slid into that habit versus deciding. And for Lent, I was just like, you know, I’m going to give up TikTok. And it’s hard as a creative because that’s an area I want to create on. And so I gave other people my password, and I’m sending them videos like, hey, put this on there, put this on there, put this on there. So it’ll be interesting to see how it does without me controlling it. But what I realized is it was keeping me. I wasn’t using it as a tool. I was using it as a distraction in so many areas of our lives, we want to distract us because when it comes down to it, we are frustrated and angry with where we are in life. And so we try to distract ourselves from it. Yeah, because of that.
00:16:07 – Jerry Dugan
Yeah. On a device that’s designed to tap into our dopamine needs or not needs, it just taps into our dopamine, the ability to just swipe and have a screen that does exactly what I wanted it to. It’s like, OOH, I like that. It gives you that sense of control, that reward in your brain. And if you do it a lot, you just start looking for that and start I find myself scrolling through videos faster now. It’s like next video.
00:16:32 – Evan Herrman
So here’s the other thing, too, because we’re talking about the whole person here. I recognized that that was having a large issue in my mental health because I was constantly craving dopamine. And what happens is we actually have a level of dopamine. We have a standardized level, each one of us. And when we hit on dopamine, it goes high and it’s released in our brain and our body. But after the release, it actually drops below baseline. And so then we always try to come back up to baseline and then we try to search for more dopamine. And what happens? It throws our mind and body in a frenzy. And so not only are we dopamine junkies, but we can also create a sense of anxiety because we’re constantly searching for dopamine and comfort. And so what happens is when we’re constantly doing that, it comes from a position of lack. And when we fill in lack chemically, that puts us into a state of flight or fright which triggers our endocrine system. When our endocrine system is triggered, then that’s when we actually start feeling anxiety. And so I just realized, like, my phone is a source of anxiety. Infinite scrolling is a source of anxiety. Over the last two years, I’ve really struggled with generalized anxiety and panic disorder. And I’ve always struggled a little bit with it in the past. I just never knew what it was. But I’ll tell you this, my journey of pursuing to become the whole person has been a huge part of healing anxiety in my life because it’s caused me to look at food, it’s caused me to look at so many habits and my purpose and how everything correlates. And because of that, I’m actually able to start living in more peace. Even though the manifestations of anxiety are more severe now than what they were, my lifestyle has shifted and I’m far more healthier now than I have been in the past. And I look at my anxiety that I’ve struggled with or I don’t want to say my anxiety because I’m not claiming it. I look at anxiety that I’ve struggled with and instead of hating it, I view it as a gift because it tells me there’s some things wrong in my life that I need to take account for. And when I can take account for them and become healthier, I actually create more of a sustainable life. And so the alarm of anxiety or depression or panic disorder or mental health, that isn’t the cause. That’s the fruit. The cause is far deeper. And then that’s where we have to start becoming more self aware and start understanding our tendencies and other things that affect us and then start working on those things to become a whole person in the areas of faith, family, finances, friendship, fitness and fun.
00:19:15 – Jerry Dugan
Man good stuff too. When you look at national trends of anxiety and depression and you look around and take a look at how long social media has been around, I’m not saying like social media is the devil or anything like that, because there are moments where social media has connected people and made things good. However, there’s got to be that awareness, just like you pointed out that, hey, this thing is wired in a way or programmed or designed in a way to give me some dopamine hits. And it’s almost like the dog that keeps going for treats and gets trained to do a thing. We’re kind of training our brains to do a certain thing, and it starts to disconnect us from the people connection of things. And I love that you’ve pointed that out and recognized that mental health was taking a hit because of something as simple as TikTok. And I know people are probably listening, like, no, that’s just Evan, or that’s just Jerry. But I challenge it. Take a step back. We’re not in the room with you. And really think about it. How much time are you spending on a social media platform or all social media platforms or just your phone alone? And then what’s the cost to the quality of conversations you’re having, I think is something for us all to think about.
00:20:29 – Evan Herrman
Yeah.
00:20:30 – Jerry Dugan
And let’s see here.
00:20:31 – Evan Herrman
I know there was something 9% battery life left, just so you know.
00:20:34 – Jerry Dugan
How many?
00:20:35 – Evan Herrman
9%.
00:20:36 – Jerry Dugan
Nine. We could do this because I want you to talk about. So a website that you shared with me before we even got together is a website called Your One Degree. And I took a look at it. It looks like it’s a series of workshops, coaching, and Your One Degree energizes Christ followers by identifying their unique design so they live out their God given purpose. And it sounds very similar to strengths based living and working and so on. What drew you to your one degree? And tell us more about it, because I know you’re not like the founder of it, but you are involved with them and you love leveraging their materials and helping people out.
00:21:13 – Evan Herrman
Correct. So I found them shortly after we lost our first child back in 2013, which was a really difficult moment for my life, and my identity and my purpose as a father was stolen from me. I didn’t know what to do with that. And so I met a guy by the name of Dave Jewett who mentored me on my purpose and my passion and how God created me to be and who God has called me to serve. And then my story and how to put that all together to affect the people who I’m supposed to serve with the giftings that I have and to stay away from the things that drain me. And I’ve gone through this like, three or four times. I’ve done it about every five years because I change. But the whole crux of it is the first part is to identify your things that give you energy, which are greens, yellows are things that you’re good at, but they’re neutral. And then reds are things that whether you’re good or bad at, but they just drain you. And then how to live and operate in those greens. And then out of those greens, we break them down to like, okay, what are even more of your giftings and your passions? And then we break that down. Then we go into, okay, well, what’s kind of your purpose? And then once we see what your purpose is through all these questions and stuff like that, then we go into, okay, now what’s your story? And your story? We have people do a self audit over their lifespan. And for me, I broke it up in years or grades of school. And again, we have greens, yellows, and blues for different moments. So, like, a red would be a negative event, like a sticky note. A green would be a positive event, and yellow would just be an event in your life. But what you do is you map out your whole life and your story and events, and then you write down lessons that you learned from these events, and now you figure out, okay, well, what are some of the same stories? What are some of the same lessons that keep reoccurring that helps me understand who I am and maybe the message now that I’m called to speak on. And then I take my skill set with my purpose, and then we move into who am I called to serve? When we’ve identified that, then you take those things and then you go serve those people. And for me, that was a big life change and something that I’m still doing to this day. I said earlier in the podcast that my purpose is to live out the heart of God by loving others back to life. So people who feel discouraged, anxious, depressed, and feel like there’s no hope, that’s who I’m called to, to give them life out of an abundance of love. And hopefully that ministers to people’s hearts and minds and causes transformation, because it was for me in my life. Yeah, that’s what your one degree is. And if someone wants to do that, you can reach out to me on my website. It’s Evanherman.com. Evanherrman.com, because if you go straight to your One Degrees website, they’ll probably set you up with a different coach or something because there’s lots of us. So just come straight to me and we can get that started.
00:24:32 – Jerry Dugan
Yeah. And I remember you had shared with me that you have a special place in your heart for those who have experienced loss, whether of a family member or of their dreams. And thank you for sharing that moment with us, of losing a child, because that does rip apart couples, it rips apart families, and it’s hard to come back from and to be able to help somebody else who’s going through something like that. And so those of you listening, if you’ve experienced that kind of loss, please reach out to Evan and go through this healing process with him.
00:25:09 – Evan Herrman
In addition to that, even if it’s not, I’ve gone through a lot of grief. I’ve lost a lot of friends, I’ve lost children. It’s a lot. But for those like, well, I can’t really identify with that. I’ve also lost a lot of dreams. I’ve also lost a lot of hope and purpose. I wanted to be a pastor my entire life since I was seven. I got a degree in theology as a local church pastor. And at the end of it, that’s not what I’m doing. And so there is a point where I gave that up. And that was a big crusher. I gave up being in the insurance industry. I gave up many different things, not because I quit, but because, no, my purpose is now more clearly defined. And what I thought was it is something that obviously isn’t. So it wasn’t like, oh, I’m doing this and I’m going to give it up to pursue something else. It’s like, no, it didn’t work out, but it didn’t work out because that’s not what I was called to, and it was God’s way of keeping me in his path and will and direction for my life. 4% left.
00:26:13 – Jerry Dugan
Now, I know people can find you with your podcast, the whole Person podcast. You just gave us your website, Evanherman.com. And before we go, though, any final words of wisdom that you want to share with folks?
00:26:29 – Evan Herrman
Be a blessing wherever you go, even if it costs you something, when you focus on other people’s wants and needs and not your own, you tend to live a more fulfilled life.
00:26:40 – Jerry Dugan
I love that. Evan, thanks for coming on. Know you’re just on the other side of town all the way in Tulsa. If you’re back in the area, we’ll have to hang out. So thanks for being on the show.
00:26:52 – Evan Herrman
Thank you so much for having me, Jerry. I really, really appreciate it.
00:26:56 – Jerry Dugan
Now, I hope you enjoyed everything that we talked about in this episode. It was short, sweet, to the point, and I had a lot of notes I took when I was talking with Evan, and I look forward to seeing him again at another podcast movement. Now, if you want to learn more about Evan, his show, his platform and so on, check out the show [email protected]. Three, seven, seven. There you’ll find I just told you what you’ll find links to his stuff. If you want more, go there. Now, if you’re thinking, man, this episode really hit me. I want more. Then I also invite you to check out my book beyond the Rut create a life worth living in your faith, family and career. It’s available on Barnes and Noble as well as Amazon. Just look up Jerry Dugan or just type in beyond the Rut. It’ll show up. You can get it as a paperback, as an e book, as an. Audiobook. I think those are the three ways. And enjoy. Not just enjoy it, but apply it. Take the time to do the exercises. Take the time to reflect. Make the time. Because if your life is important for you, you’ll make time for it. So there you have it. Now, I’m glad you joined me in this episode, and I look forward to joining you again on the next one. But until then, go live life beyond the rut. Take care.
