Dr. Corey Gilbert has changed how counseling sessions are done with a focus on a better future for clients.

Healing Lives: Dr. Corey Gilbert’s Transformative Ministry for Men Healing from Trauma – BtR 346

When Dr. Corey Gilbert’s counseling sessions exceed the typical 50 minutes and he enters clients’ homes, he discovers the key to success is discipleship, not “counseling”; an inspiring journey to help men rise up and break free from the bondage of their past.

Dr. Corey Gilbert has changed how counseling sessions are done with a focus on a better future for clients.

“My goal when I sit with the client, whether it’s online or whether it’s in person, is we’re there until we’re done. And so whatever is needed and it’s changed everything. We get more done in a shorter amount of time. We dig deeper because if you think of the session, it’s more focused on prepping for what has to get done out of the session.”

Dr. Corey Gilbert is a 23-year veteran in the field of counseling and mental health, and the founder of HealingLives, a counseling service that focuses on helping clients unlock their future by addressing past traumas.

He realized that the 50-minute session wasn’t enough to truly help his clients. He began to offer four to six-hour sessions and even went to clients’ homes in order to provide a more meaningful experience. 

Through this, he discovered the importance of discipleship and helping people to become the person God intended them to be. Through this process, men were able to face demons from their past and learn to steward their sexuality with dignity and respect. 

Parents were encouraged to have conversations with their children and to raise their expectations for them. Dr. Corey Gilbert found a way to truly help his clients and to bring God’s design of family and sexuality to the forefront.

In this episode, you will learn the following:

1. An alternative to the traditional 50-minute counseling session that works.

2. The impact of media on young people’s perceptions of sexual norms.

3. The importance of parents engaging in micro-conversations with their children to help them navigate the changing world.

Dr. Corey Gilbert – Counselor, Professor, Author, and Podcast Host

Over the last 23 years, Dr. Corey Gilbert has devoted his life to counseling individuals, couples, and families struggling with past abuse, especially in the areas of trauma, adultery, struggles with sex, sexuality, and gender identity.

As a Licensed Professional Counselor with a Ph.D. in Family Psychology, Dr. Gilbert knew is passion and purpose in life was to help individuals overcome their pain, but also saw that the traditional therapeutic structure of endless 1-hour weekly sessions wasn’t getting clients closer to the freedom and joy of living that they wanted to experience.

There had to be a better way.

This hunger to serve individuals, marriages, and families in a better way made him a radical student of coaching, transformation, communication, and growth. When Dr. Gilbert committed to serving as a coach in the areas of transformation, he saw everything change.

Today, Dr. Corey Gilbert is the CEO and Founder of the HealingLives Center, an acclaimed author, and a sought-after speaker. Every day he works passionately to support and coach individuals from all walks of life as they overcome their pain, understand who they are, and even see value in their suffering.

You can learn more about The HealingLives Center, the podcast HealingLives, and more at https://drcoreygilbert.com

Chapter Summaries:


The traditional 50-minute session is out the window at HealingLives. Average sessions are between four and six hours. It’s more than counseling, it’s more like a coaching model. 


The theology around forgiveness, I think, can change the way we view that other F-word. The opposite is what? Bitterness. How many of us are spending so much energy in resentment? 


Healing from sexual trauma and pornography.


A culture tainted in sexuality in a way that we’re really distorting for boys and girls, young men and young women what a healthy, dignified way is to live.


Parenting teenagers, and helping them navigate a challenging time in their lives. Some do’s and don’ts to keep the door of communication open.


The more your teenagers know about your real life the more they’re going to see you as a real person. How you respond matters. 


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Other episodes and articles you’ll enjoy:

When Life Feels Out of Control: A Trauma Recovery Coach’s Guide – BtR 329

Ryan Mains Ultrarunning to Raise Awareness for Firefighter PTSD – BtR 230

Authentic Manhood, Sexual Brokenness and Other Struggles of a Christian Man – Traylor Lovvorn – BtR 190

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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerrydugan/

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Dr. Corey Gilbert  00:00

What I also see is, most people go 15 minute session, let’s say on a Monday and then for six days, they don’t think about it and all sudden, it’s like, oh, shoot, I got counseling today. And they go to counseling again, it’s like nothing is happening between and if nothing’s happening between, you probably should stop this. And so I don’t like the the model where we’re basically just, it’s all about just the time with the counselor. It’s all about to me the time between the counseling.

Jerry Dugan  00:29

Hey, Raider Nation, welcome to another episode of beyond the rut, the podcast that shares, encouraging stories and practical tools to help pull you out of your rut into a life worth living in the areas of your faith, your family and your career or business. I’m your host, Jerry Dugan. And on this episode, we’re going to be joined by Dr. Corey Gilbert. Now he’s a counselor, a college professor, and host of a podcast called Healing lives. What drew me to Dr. Gilbert’s work is this whole idea of, you know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. And in a way, that is how the counseling industry operates right with the 50 Minute counseling session. And then off you go, good luck. Dr. Gilbert says, What if that’s not working? And what if there’s another way we can go about helping people heal in their lives, and have the accountability needed to make a change? So he’s blown up the idea of the 50 Minute counseling session, and we’re going to talk about that. What is the model he follows? What is the impact it has had on his clients. And we’ll also talk about some added bonuses, like parenting, as well as men healing from sexual trauma, and so much more. So, crack open your notebook, get a pen. Ready. Here we go. All right. Hey, Cory, thanks for calling in from Oregon. How are you doing?

Dr. Corey Gilbert  01:52

Doing great. Good to be on the show. Awesome. Great

Jerry Dugan  01:55

to have you on here. We just finished recording for your show healing lines podcast. And that was that was a really cool conversation. I apologize to you because I think I told you my whole life story out of sequence. Because my wife and I with our daughter, we just watched kaleidoscope. I don’t know if you’ve seen that show on, I think it’s Netflix. So that’s what we do. Now our kids are grown up. So we just watch we binge watch shows with them. We did that when we reached out to. Now we met through pod match, I believe our friend Alex Sanfilippo, put it together. It’s kind of like a podcast directory, and a dating website got together had a baby. It’s called pod match. And so I came to you as a guest found that you have a show as well. And you actually you have a very powerful business slash ministry that I wanted to showcase on this show. And so not only do you have a podcast called Healing lives, you’ve written some books. You also founded a business or a counseling service called Healing lives. That right, awesome. Yes. And I noticed when I was looking at your website, that one of the things that you got out of as far as getting out of a rut, like the the traditional 50 minute session is out the window. And I was like, Okay, I’m gonna ask that. I didn’t even tell you that before we hit record. But I’m already curious, like, what does that mean? You take the traditional 50 minute session and just throw that out the window. And so what changed as far as how care is delivered through healing lives?

Dr. Corey Gilbert  03:25

Great question. So I’ve been in practice for 23 years, if you can believe that the year 2000, got my license and start off and really started seeing that this 15 minute session, even from the beginning, I couldn’t stick to it and didn’t want to stick to it as and I wanted to be there as long as I need to be there. So I would attempt to do you know, an hour and a half or two hours. But fast forward is last about three years, since the whole pandemic stuff. My average sessions are between four and six hours. My goal when I sit with a client, whether it’s online, or whether it’s in person is to we’re there until we’re done. And so whatever is needed, and it’s changed everything like it’s we get more done and in a shorter amount of time. We dig deeper, because it’s if you think of the session, it’s more focused on prepping for what has to get done out of the session. So that’s part of it. And it’s actually more than counseling. It’s not even counseling. It’s actually more we Yes, the coaching model, but my favorite word is discipleship. Yeah, it’s helping grow someone into the person that I believe God’s designed them to be. And so we’re designing in a sense during that, four or five hours unpacking a little but really planning and then the executions after I go home after I leave. I’ve also started going more into people’s homes instead of them coming to some office. So there’s a lot of ways that I’ve kind of just changed the whole model, and I’m having a blast, not always with the topics because the topics are heavy and hard. have been tough. But with the results, just seeing beautiful things happen in families.

Jerry Dugan  05:04

That makes a lot of sense, too. Because I think if it’s a 50 minute session, I know for me if I had to go to a 15 minute session, especially if we’re gonna dig deep and open some wounds and make me kind of face, my past, so I can heal from that past. My goal is get out of there as fast as possible, how do I make the 50 minutes pass as fast as possible. But if the goal is we’re staying here together until you have come to a point where you can open up and face the music in a sense, and start the healing process, that’s the time we’ve got, then that changes the goal from let me get out of here as soon as possible to Well, let me solve this thing as fast as possible. Let’s face this thing. And so I can already see just the shift in the goal for the for somebody who’s the client going in, does that seem to be the case for the folks who are coming in as well?

Dr. Corey Gilbert  05:55

Yes. And really, it’s putting the burden of what we’re doing on them versus the counselor versus me or the coach. I’m not some miracle worker, they have to do the work. And so I’m the guide, I’m pointing the direction, I’m we’re pointing to Scripture, we’re pointing direction, but in the end, they have to execute. So we’re also see is, most people go 15 minute session, let’s say on a Monday, and then for six days, they don’t think about it, and all sudden it’s like, oh, shoot, I got counseling today. And they go to counseling, again, it’s like nothing is happening between and if nothing’s happening between, we probably should stop this. And so I don’t like the the model where we’re basically just, it’s all about just the time with the counselor. It’s all about to me the time between the counseling,

Jerry Dugan  06:45

how does your scheduling work for something like that, because you can’t just like stack four or five people up in a day if one of them is going to run five or six hours. So how do you schedule around that?

Dr. Corey Gilbert  06:56

I scheduled for five hour blocks basically. And so I it’s also on the side, I’m a full time professor at University is my kind of day gig. And this is my night gig if you. So I actually see clients between 9pm and midnight, two or three days a week, oh, wow, some weekends. And just I really will work around family schedules. It’s being at being able to do this with couples where they don’t have to leave the house, that’s where zoom has been great, where they can be at home. And kids in bed in the evening, that kind of thing that’s been really, really good. Again, the goal is to adapt to where people are at towards their goals, and helping them achieve those in the shortest amount of time possible. Versus I’ve been in therapy for three years, or five years or 10 years. And like that, to me is not healthy model.

Jerry Dugan  07:48

Right. So that’s to keep you stuck going to the next appointment. And I love that like, because I know for a lot of folks out there that maybe work hourly, or they don’t have enough, paid time off saved up or their company culture is one that frowns upon you leaving the office to go take care of yourself while spouting off about wellness and taking care of yourself. So this helps those who work for an organization during the day where they can’t get away or they feel guilty if they leave for the day. Now that can meet you in the evening. And I’m assuming you pad your day so that it’s not taking away from your family. Because you’re married, you have children as well. And you homeschool. On top of that. I’m sure you tag team that it’s not like it’s all quarry, doing all of it. I’ve looked at your website, I know. It’s really amazing that you take that model that doesn’t seem to be working, it just seems to be a way to collect money from people and from insurance companies. And you’re like, yeah, that’s not the point of this field, though this field, this field is here to take care of people and help them live their best lives and get results. Yeah. And so I love that you say on your website that you know, the counseling is to get the diagnosis. The coaching has more to do with like unlocking your future. And, and just the point. Yeah, I mean it well, it was on your website. So I’m just repeating. If I sound smart, that’s why I just I love that. And you’ve said it already in our conversation that you really want to help the people you work with not just mess with the past and, you know, stay there like you don’t want that at all. You want them to take care of that path so they can go and propel themselves into their future which is totally beyond the rut because beyond the rest not about staying in your rut and naked in a trench. It’s about how do I live beyond this thing and live my fullest life

Dr. Corey Gilbert  09:45

and a lot of people like to think that they have to go into the past fix the past. So that’s why a lot especially men are not going to go to counseling. Yeah, because I’m not gonna go tell you what happened to me. And actually for a lot of men, like I never make the connection of these Certain events that I had when I’m younger affect me today that the connection is not even there. So for them to go to counseling is going to be almost no, not at all. I think it’s like 90% of clients are female. So men are void there. So what do we do, we need to find a different way in, to shout out to call out men to be the men God designed them to be, and to call them up to a higher calling and a one a strength, but it will involve addressing the past, but not in my opinion, not in the way most people think. Again, it’s not I’ve got to share my bitter diatribes of my childhood. No, that’s not the goal. It’s through actually understanding how those things affect me today. That’s the unlocking of the future.

Jerry Dugan  10:43

Yeah, yes. I see that in myself, too, that, you know, how did I cope with things growing up? Well, it’s always how do I build a better future? And, you know, what are the boundaries for that? And so, you know, reflecting on my life, though, because there’s some things in me, I’m not trying to get free counseling, by the way, I’m just sharing, for example, everybody. So like, I know, for me, like, something that is kind of in me, is this like, what do they call it? Not the savior complex, but maybe it is that it’s that idea of like, I’ve got to be vigilant and keep an eye on everybody and make sure everybody else is okay. And, you know, I was kind of like that before as a kid, but the ad combat on top of that, it’s like double whammy of PTSD. And now it’s like, I scan the room all the time, shopping malls are not my friend. conferences. I love them as an extrovert. And I’m looking for who’s the killer in the room? But then, yeah, isn’t that deep? Myself, and so it’s, that’s that realization of like, some of the things I experienced growing up, is why I have that sense of this duty that I need to take care of everybody at all times. Even when I don’t even work there. And just unpacking that over the years realizing, Wait, you know, there’s these things called boundaries. And maybe, you know, when I’m in certain situations, I just let the people in the room do their job, and trust that they’ll get it done. And I’ll be okay. And at the

Dr. Corey Gilbert  12:13

same time, wouldn’t isn’t it something maybe that God put in men? That actually this is not this is not like, a childhood thing? Even? Yes, that affects us and makes it even worse. But what if it’s actually God has meant and is designed for men to be the protectors and men to be the vigilant in the scandal, you know, the rooms canners. And, and to me, that’s a shout out and a call out to a lot of the men who are not well, what’s the alternative? self centered narcissist. So I think the actually God’s design is much more that you are meant to be someone who just has a either learn or it is Banat natural to be rooms canner and to be a protector into to play out that role, which I think is a beautiful picture. It’s even if it’s not something that comes naturally to you, it can be learned.

Jerry Dugan  13:05

And I think even taking the time to discern the things that I should take responsibility for and propel myself forward versus the things I should hold on to. And, and like learning the difference between the two, like, you know, forgiving my parents that they got divorced when I was 11. You know, it’s like, that was something they went through. Yes, my brother and I happen to be there. Yes. Where things experienced? Yes. Can I do anything about it now in my 30s, or 40s? Nope.

Dr. Corey Gilbert  13:33

So you mentioned that you mentioned that ugly word forgiveness, like actually, I call that the other F word. Right? Because that’s how we treat it. It’s like forgiveness. I’ll give it to you only if I want to. It’s like actually no, God commanded you to. Yeah. So you’d forgive because God commanded you to not because you want to. But what does it do? It opens me up, it frees me i a whole new world comes when I actually truly find forgiveness. I let go and the theology around forgiveness, I think can change the way we view that other F word. And we actually realize it’s actually a good thing and beautiful thing.

Jerry Dugan  14:13

Yeah. The opposite is what bitterness, right? And holding on to that I heard somebody say holding on to bitterness is like taking poison hoping the other person dies. And I was like, great. Yeah. I love that. And I have held on to that. It’s like, that makes me sound smart. Every time I say it, I’m like, I didn’t come with it. Come up with it. But yeah, forgiveness, though. It’s like, yeah, you mentioned it is a commandment to forgive others. How many times you know, 770 1007 Was it seven times seven is a big number. Whatever it was, Jesus said it was a big number. And the point was like, you just keep forgiving every day, all day, whatever it takes forever. And I get the commandment, but at the same time, like it’s it who does it benefit?

Dr. Corey Gilbert  14:57

Me exactly out there too. Got myself? Yeah,

Jerry Dugan  15:01

yeah, cuz I’m not holding on to that bitterness pill anymore, right? And I’m not taking that poison. Any

Dr. Corey Gilbert  15:06

of you think of that bandwidth of how much time I have or energy I have to spend how many of us are spending so much energy, in resentment in ruminating in remembering and hating someone else? Parents, an ex lover, a boss? Like it’s not healthy. It’s not, it’s not doing you? Well, it’s not serving you well. And I think it was so many men with the life experiences so that so many of us have, there’s probably a list of people that we actually if we’re not careful, we have our list. Yeah. Whether it’s an actual piece of paper or not, we have our list. And it’s like, what if what if working on that list becomes your gateway into a whole nother existence, another bit of being of your marriage, you’re showing up as a father, as a father of your kids, just all of who you are?

Jerry Dugan  15:58

Yeah. And it’s making me think about the specificity that your business has. Your practice, I should say, is probably the better word. Like healing lives is not just about having healthy family relationships, like that’s kind of the end goal, healthy marriages, healthy family relationships, but there was something else so that I read about on your website, as far as like, your specialty, or like the special focus, and that was on, like those who have experienced trauma, you know, sexual trauma, while growing up, you know, gender identity, those kinds of things. And I, when I was learning that I was thinking, gosh, you know, it’d be really great if we talked about, you know, those of us who are men now, who probably experienced some kind of sexual trauma while they were growing up, and I don’t know who out there needs to hear that. But I know in the history of beyond the rut, I don’t think we’ve ever touched that subject. But I know men that I’ve met in life that have experienced that. And not just as when they were young boys, but being sexually assaulted as men. While maybe they were in college, or as you know, older than that. So toxic, I guess, can you tell us more about that practice, and why it’s so important for us to find that healing from that kind of trauma?

Dr. Corey Gilbert  17:13

Well, we raise men, we raise boys to really believe that any sexual anything is a notch in your belt and as a badge of honor. And, hey, I got my babysitter to do this. And hey, even though more often than not that babysitter was actually the perpetrator, because that was an adult, usually our older person abusing using a younger, but as a boy, we don’t see it as sexual assault, you know, young man in college where some unwanted sexual experience happens, I have to reframe it, my brain quickly is, hey, look what I got to do. And it even becomes a share it with the buddies, that’s often the culture. And so what man is going to share, hey, I was actually sexually assaulted, most are never going to go there. And I’d say most don’t even think that they have that in their past. It’s a part of it. She’s helping them see the truth. That no, that shouldn’t have happened. And know that that experience actually did Jade you or did shape you or did change. You just like looking at pornography from a young age, you weren’t supposed to see that. We don’t see that as abuse will actually it is, is actually the assault of those images that are a beautiful thing in the wrong context, which is pornography, then you now are shaped where you now see every other woman as a piece of meat or some thing or it shapes you. Men on average are not going to see that as a bad thing. They just it just is. And it’s like no, it’s not. It’s not God’s design. It’s not the best. It’s not your healthiest. And so whether it was you were touched in some way or even pornography at a young age, we’re shaped by all those sexual things. And even our inside our own minds, the way that we see our own desires and lusts. They can seem to be like some monster inside that we can’t seem to tame and it’s like no, it’s a part of God’s design that you’re the steward. But we haven’t we haven’t helped you to steward that we have done an ill, you’re ill equipped to steward that because we need to talk about how God designed you and what it’s meant for because it’s actually meant to be for good. It’s not a mistake. It’s not an error in God’s design. It’s about stewardship. So when any of that’s out of whack, so a babysitter, touching you a, you know, person across the street asking you to do some sexual favor, whatever it is sexual experience with a boyfriend or girlfriend or girlfriend, we’re talking about boys, any of these things can become something that shapes you in a way that 20 3040 years later, you’re still affected by it. So let’s call it what it is which is wrong. Long at least, if not calling it assault or if not calling it abuse so that we can then be set free. What I’m seeing is a lot of men who are trapped, they don’t know they’re trapped. They don’t understand why they’re they have these proclivities or have these predispositions because they don’t understand their story. Their story is written, and it’s interpreted wrong. It’s not, it’s not true. So they’ve twisted it around and make it fit. Hey, I’m a man. And it’s like, yeah, you’re actually a child right now in the way you’re reacting or acting. So how to help men rise up, I believe a big piece of that is facing those demons facing those, again, things that we even wouldn’t have said, were, were that big of a deal are that bad? And I’d say yes, they were. And when you see it for what they are, you start seeing your life different, you start seeing your wife different, you start seeing women different, you start treating people, actually with a really important word dignity, that gets lost in all of that. It all gets tainted,

Jerry Dugan  21:03

very interesting to include that whole spectrum there to the you know, I started in with the extreme and you included the other end of that spectrum of assault, and that’s the exposure to sexual content at a young age. I know I think I saw my first porn right around the age of nine. I mean, I was Army brat. So almost every soldier. Yeah, and had a stash somewhere. And I was at a friend’s house and they found their dad stash. And what are we watching while dad’s on duty and mom’s at work porn. And it was like, and I just remember thinking what is happening in this guy’s like this what happens when a boy likes a girl and the girls in the room are like, that’s not what happens. And like, all of us are confused, except the kid apparently. And even he’s kind of confused, looking back. But yeah, that that had an impact on how I approached relationships. And I know the show Friends kind of makes fun of that, in one episode. With Joey and Chandler had scrambled porn in their apartment. Oh, it was unscrambled. So they had free pornography in their apartment for I think, a good week or so. And they started to realize after the time had gone by, like they went to a pizza restaurant, and the lady didn’t just throw down for them, or they went to pick up dry cleaning, and nothing happened with the lady there. And they’re just like, do you think this has messed with our perception of what women really do? And they’re like, maybe it has a chance, they decided to like, unplug the cable box or something to reset it and scramble it back up, so they can never see it again. And I was like, it was funny. But at the same time, it really touched on the impact that pornography has on people’s minds especially Yeah, but like, even

Dr. Corey Gilbert  22:40

with friends, like I love that TV show, because of the the era that it came out and when I saw it, but if you look at those episodes, they were clearly having almost besides that one, or they actually kind of showed almost the negative side, they celebrated so much stuff like that they celebrated sleeping around, they celebrated pornography was normalized. And there were really key moments in the 90s of that just kind of, and that’s what TV does. Now it’s pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing to normalize things that are not normal. And so like, I know, different shows I’ve seen even lately, where it’s like, wow, thinking of a young kid watching that right now how much that shapes what he or she sees as normal. How many girls today really do believe that? Oh, you’re supposed to have sex in your first or second date. That’s just normal know, the sexual parts for marriage. And it’s like we I think we have to, we need to be screaming this from the rooftops as to some of the boundaries and what’s healthy and wise is probably even a better word. Because so many are doing things because they think they’re supposed to boys and girls. And no, they’re not. Then one of the things happening right now in college age 20 Somethings is the amount of boys that have never been on a date, but they’ve had sex with five or 10 women. And so they can’t even ask her on a date. They don’t know how they’ve had sex. And I even had a student not too long ago actually made that comment. It’s like going to coffee with someone no way having sex. Sure. Well, like my mind can’t wrap around that. But it’s like the culture is so tainted sexuality in a way that we’re really distorting for boys and girls, young men and young women. What a healthy, dignified way is to live.

Jerry Dugan  24:31

Yeah. Oh, yeah. That was something that’s been a shock for my wife and I, you know, raising our own kids, you know, that, that things seem to be getting the, what we call the CW treatment. Yeah, I called on the network. Yeah, so things like Riverdale, which took Archie Comics and sexualize them in a sense, and we watched it with our kids, but um, there were some conversations that we had with our kids about what we just watched because they were they were older teenagers by then. At But it was just it was blown my mind though, like, the hyper sexualization of these characters from a comic book, and you know who’s watching this? Who’s the demographic and it was like 1218 year olds really. And I thought, wow, we’re like just pouring these images. And it’s not just CW, I mean, it’s magazines. It’s right, the Internet of Things.

Dr. Corey Gilbert  25:22

And that’s where, for me parents, I tell them, I challenge them. Yes, you can make the choice to not have any of that in your home and don’t watch any of that stuff. Or watch it with them and have dialogue after dialogue after dialogue after dialogue, talk quickly. You may not even want to watch it, sit with them, talk and talk and talk, have conversations, use it as a tool to teach and learn about the real world. Yeah, but even that’s not actually the real world. So that’s what’s so frustrating and scary is that isn’t the real world. So it is well, actually, in our kids minds. Everything online is the real world. So maybe it is the real world. So we’ve got we need as parents to push into some areas of extreme discomfort to address some issues that you may not want to none of us want to. But this is the new world order. I need to go there.

Jerry Dugan  26:16

And it makes sense because I think is what they say the subconscious mind doesn’t really discern between fact and fiction. It’s all fact. And so what you do pour in your head matters. And if you don’t check it, challenge it, process it. Reenter, reintegrate the stuff that is supposed to stay there, it just takes over and you just have these knee jerk reactions over things are these automatic responses that you can’t really explain, as because you’ve been feeding your mind with something that you haven’t really challenged or checked. And, yeah, I mean, watch a lot of things that we do with our kids, you know, sometimes was awkward, but I’m glad we did. And some of the conversations we had, I’m glad we did. Like we even had half the birds and bees talk with our son when he was in, man, my wife says fifth grade is a third grade with somewhere in that window. It was the later part of elementary school. And we did this because we already heard through friends that their kids had seen pornography. You know, it’s Yeah. And we’re like, okay, these are our son’s friends. So if they’re seeing it at home, they’re probably talking about it at school. And if all we need is just one of those kids to bring a phone into the school, and our son has now seen it as well. So let’s talk about this with our son and Impalas. There were other questions, because you know, like our son, you know, biologically isn’t my son, but other than that, he is my son. And, you know, people started to notice like, hey, you know, Jacob doesn’t look like his dad. Yeah. Jake has got blond hair, blue eyes and his dad, and he’s taller. And his dad is a short guy with brown hair, brown eyes. Why is that? So? Right, yeah, I mean, he looks like his mom a little bit, but he doesn’t look like his dad. And so we were like, Okay, we had, we had to explain that part. But we also got to address this other thing. And so we had that conversation with him. And it was, the look on his face was like, Oh, my gosh, that sounds so wrong. We’re like, well, it is not wrong, but it is what the world is. And he was like, okay, and it turns out, he did get exposed to it maybe a year or two after that. And he had some sort of foundation to work off of and. And, yeah, it’s just, it’s a challenge. It’s like, what do we say I felt awkward. We eventually just rip the band aid off, and we had the talk. hydrometers a little different. I think she liked pushing the envelope. So she welcomed all these like life lessons from us. And we’ll even bring stuff up just to see if she can make us feel awkward. And we’re like, okay, kid to swipe some secrets, but maybe not at all. So very open relationship with our kids. As far as conversation, I think the thing for us that we had my wife and I had to really talk about was, no matter what they bring up, don’t get mad at them because they brought it up. And because especially as they got older, you know, teenagers already don’t feel comfortable going to their parents or something. They get their advice from each other, which is insane. But it’s what they did when I’ve taught

Dr. Corey Gilbert  29:21

human sexuality at the college level for 18 years. And I’ve surveyed them every year, this whole time. And one of the things that some of my students who do research have found from the data has been most teenagers want their parents to be the primary teachers of these things, and they want to be able to go to their parents, but their primary teachers are pornography online and friends. And it’s like so why the disconnect? Yeah, because they want the parents initiate. They’re not going to go to their parents they want to, but they’re not going to bring it up. So to me the disconnect the kind of the conclusion of that Is mom and dad, you need to go there. You don’t wait around for your kids to bring it up some will. And that’s great. Thank be welcoming of that. But most will stay dead silent and they will go to their friends or go Google it for they’ll come to us. So yeah, I call it in my book, I call it micro conversations. You need to be having these little conversations all the time, going way beyond just the talk, and helping them navigate the terrain of of the life that they’re living in the era. They’re living in it not your era, where you lived it, and their reality with social media, and internet and phones and all the stuff that you didn’t have this as the real world for them. So go there.

Jerry Dugan  30:45

Yes, yeah, meet them where they are. Because, I mean, one of the biggest complaints I’ve heard kids say, as we’re raising our kids is that our parents don’t understand us. They don’t know what we’re going through. And in a lot of ways we’ve gotten to the Yeah, yeah, we

Dr. Corey Gilbert  30:59

says every generation exactly right.

Jerry Dugan  31:03

Because I remember say that about my parents when I was growing up, oh, what do they know that I become an adult, I’m like, they lived it too. Okay, I understand now, can’t go back in time to tell my parents they were right. But it’s, I think that was one of the things we’d also drive home with our son, our son between the two kids, probably the more stubborn, as far as not listening to advice. And we were just driving home, like, look, we bring this up, not because you’ve done anything wrong, or because you’re bad. We bring it up because we’ve done it ourselves. And we’ve made our mistakes. And we want you to learn from that. And I think that is something I love to share with other parents because we feel like we’ve got to be perfect parents, we got to have the the lunches made just right. The money’s got to come in, the cars have to be there. And it’s like, be real, especially at a time in their lives. Like you’ve got teenagers, you said, like I missed those years, and I don’t at the same time. Because they were going through like those real adjustments now. Like where everything we told them as a kid is now hitting the reality of the rest of the world. And so they’re sorting out for themselves. What was real what was just a cool story, they told us because we were kids. I’m sorting all this out. I’m trying to become myself. I’m supposed to pick a major for college. I don’t know if I even want to go to college. What am I supposed to do the rest of my life?

Dr. Corey Gilbert  32:23

Do identity. This is the this is the stage of figuring out my identity always has been. Yeah, yet in, you know, decades and decades passed by 13 year work in the farm. So we’ve created this extended adolescence, just culturally, which is now going on to like 30, or something like that later now. Well, people aren’t launching people aren’t kit, you need a one of the statements. I think for some parents, you need to flood the basement, that kid needs to go is that 100%? No, sometimes they need a place to fall back. And sometimes they need that help. But in general, flood the basement, get them out, they need to be on their own. But years passed again, by a younger age, they had more responsibility, what’s what’s changed, we have lowered the expectations. You’re, again, families, you have young kids experiment with this, they should be doing chores, at what age 123 Doesn’t matter what age, every age that you start them as being a part of the family. And to me, God’s designed of mom and dad and the family, one man and one woman, Mom and Dad, and children create a system of learning, because mom and dad are not going to be the same. Any two people aren’t. But they’re not going to be the same. And they need to see that. And they need just to be able to wrestle with that. And they’re going to try to pit mom and dad against each other and play those games and mom and dad, you need to get on the same page and via unified executive system front kind of thing. But you’re raising them to help them make decisions and to know how to argue and know how to disagree with dignity, how to how to handle disappointment and fail. But like you said, if we have to put on that front of perfection, we have already failed. Because they’re gonna look at that and go, I can’t be like them. So forget you and your God. And that’s what we’re what we’re seeing is ditch everything. And they’re supposed to go experiment on their own. And we don’t want them to do that.

Jerry Dugan  34:32

Yeah, especially when they can easily just launch off of the lessons we’ve already learned. But yeah, they need us to be present and to be real. And I think that’s probably the best gift we could give our kids is. Yeah, this is all of me. This is what I experienced.

Dr. Corey Gilbert  34:48

Yeah. And as they get older and they’re a teenager, you can share more details of mistakes you’ve made and more details of really rough seasons of your life, but the more they know about your real life, the More they’re gonna see like a real person versus this mom or dad. It’s almost superhuman and not real and reality because we’re being fake. But they can learn from us they can learn from those things. But it I mean, adolescence, not only are they struggling with identity, they know it. All right. So perfect, just do what I do, which is you can just sit at their feet and learn from them. Just kidding. I teach new teenagers. They know it all. So you’re, you’re fighting an uphill battle at some sometimes. But guess what, they’re still the child, you’re still the leader. And so that’s another area I really see is mom and dad know you’re still in charge. So there are some things you need to actually say no, this is what we’re doing as a family. Yeah, like church should not be optional. That is a part of our family ethos we’re going and so that shouldn’t be and there should be other there might be other things as a family that you see as this is a non negotiable. And so you establish that as a, as a couple in that family. And you’re an example and you’re sharing and you’re being honest, but and what he was talking about earlier about men and the stories they have, as a dad, you’re gonna have stuff you can share with your kids, that’s great. Your kids thinking of your young boys, they’re growing up, and they’re gonna have stuff that’s gonna harm them or hurt them. So I’m gonna prepare them for that. prepare them for the fact that you’re going to have gone to this person’s house and something bad can happen. Yeah, what kind of man are you going to be? I don’t care if you’re 12. What kind of man are you going to be? And we’re not trying to put too heavy an expectation. But we’re kind of trying to say, Hey, how you respond matters. And when we respond with silence, and when we respond with, with hiding stuff. That’s Satan. Satan’s the Satan of darkness and of lies. So I needed to respond with truth, which is really hard at times.

Jerry Dugan  37:01

Yes. Takes a lot of humility to put it out there too. Oh, man. Now I see that. Now I know your website is healing lives.com. Definitely worth checking that out. You heard Cory say that he does zoom sessions. So I guess you don’t have to live in Salem, Oregon to to get help from you. And then your your first book, you you were one of your books, you announced or kind of slipped the title in there going beyond the talk. And then I see the other cover behind? Yeah, it’s, I can’t say that. Tell us about those two books. And, and we’ll go from there.

Dr. Corey Gilbert  37:39

Awesome. So my first one was, I can’t say that that was a book I wrote for parents. There’s a workbook that goes along with it. That’s separate there. And it’s meant to help walk you through the questions of gender and sexuality from a biblical worldview, and help you think so then it’s got it’s got content and scripture, and then questions, to help you know what you believe, so that you’re able to answer questions for your kids. So it’s meant to help you wrestle with those things. Because what I’m finding is for a lot of people, we have opinion, we actually haven’t really studied or researched it. We don’t know what to do in this day and age with what kids are wrestling with. The gender confusion stuff that’s going on. And so we really default to what we just hear in the news, or we hear online, and most of that’s all false, and it’s actually all unhealthy. And I’d say ungodly, it’s unbiblical. So this is what it’s, it’s this is for the parent. And then my second book, going beyond the talk, that one was similar content, but it’s actually for you to handle your preteen or your teenager. Nice. So it’s got the workbook at the end of each chapter, it’s got a workbook, but it’s walking through Scripture walking through understanding a biblical view of gender and sexuality. It looks at everything from pornography, and masturbation to dating a dating process, and even polyamory, which is on the rise in our world, which is multiple partners. And so again, helping you think through what do you believe one of my best reviews of the book was a an 18 year old that said, I’m glad that he outlined this so well, that it wasn’t telling me what to believe. But it was helping me think for myself. I was like, yes, that’s that was my goal was to help you think for yourself and to give you some tools to do so.

Jerry Dugan  39:26

Yeah. Because that’s ultimately what we need is not what do i regurgitate in the moment, but how do I process a new situation I’ve ever been to and you got to have that foundation of unknowing that foundation so well that you can navigate something that looks like new territory. I love that. Any before we go any final words of wisdom.

Dr. Corey Gilbert  39:46

Oh, well, I’m just honored to be on your show. And going beyond the wreck. I think to me, most most men, probably percentage wise, too many men are stuck. And so as we kind of talked about earlier, some of it’s probably because of your past stunt, I would challenge you to deal with that, it does not mean going to therapy and having to share all your deep dark secrets. That’s not what it’s about. But it’s actually breaking free by getting the right help. And so I have a whole trauma to transform program that helps you walk through past, you know, trauma and abuse and helps you break free without ever sharing your story or ever going into that. Then using that for years with with all ages, basically. But also it’s led into what I do is called the healing marriage. Because I believe God created marriage to be a husband and wife that actually complement one another and actually work together to help each other become better versions of themselves because of who they marry because of who we married. And so in that it’s been a beautiful thing to see men and women who’ve got past trauma. See that their spouse is actually the biggest partner and actually healing and growing in that. And so I if I can serve my Facebook group is the healing marriage Facebook group. So you can find me just by typing healing marriage, and a free group. And then from there, if I can book a free consult with you and talk with you, be honored to help you brainstorm just kind of where you’re at and where you’re struggling, whether it’s past trauma, or it’s your marriage, or you’re struggling with your kids when it comes to their gender stuff or sexuality. That’s my heart in my mission at this point in my life.

Jerry Dugan  41:27

Awesome, Cory, it’s great to have you on here and honored. And yeah, thank you so much. Pleasure. If you got a lot out of this conversation, hit the share button on how ever you’re listening to this episode right now. And share it with somebody you know, maybe share it with your social media circles and tell them this is what stood out to me. How about you. You can also check out the show notes at beyond the rut.com slash 346. And there you’ll find links to Dr. Gilbert’s website, his podcast and related beyond the right episodes on mental health and healing. Now I’m glad you joined me for this episode, and I look forward to joining you again in the next one. But until then, go live life beyond the rut. Take care