When Dan LeFebvre, host of the popular podcast “Based on a True Story”, discovers the importance of learning from history to create a better future, he embarks on a mission to uncover the facts from the fiction of the movies he reviews, providing an entertaining and educational look into our shared past.
“You can definitely learn from the past to make a better future. The other side of that is you also still have to want to make that better future and not just repeat like we talk about repeat the problems of the past.” – Dan LeFebvre
Table of Contents
Learning From History
Have you ever watched a movie that claimed to be “based on a true story” and wondered how much of that was true? Dan LeFebvre was driven by that same question so much that he has hosted the podcast, Based on a True Story, for years and it is one that I’ve followed for about as long as I have been in podcasting. What can I say? I love history and I love movies.
It is said that those who fail to learn from their past are doomed to repeat it.
Learning from history, especially your own life’s journey gives you insights into what is going well and where you are about to repeat the same mistakes. You can start to identify limiting beliefs that may originate from a parent or grandparent. You may start to realize that while you think no one from your neighborhood could ever find success, there are those who did climb out of their ruts and are living with impact for a better future.
In this episode, you will learn the following:
1. How can you learn from history to create a better future?
2. What strategies can you use to discern reliable factual information?
3. How do individual perspectives shape the history of a major event?
Dan LeFebvre
Dan LeFebvre is the host of the podcast “Based on a True Story”, which combines his two passions of history and movies. He has a fascination for military history and loves to read books about the Civil War and World War II. He also has a background in movie production and content marketing, which has helped him create his podcast.
Dan LeFebvre has a passion for history and movies, which he has combined together to host a podcast called Based on a True Story. On the podcast, he breaks down the facts and fiction of movies based on true stories, using a variety of sources to discern whether something is fact or fiction. Through his podcast, he encourages listeners to learn from the past to make a better future and to pay attention to their family’s history. Dan proves with his podcast that learning from history by comparing it with movies “based on a true story” is both entertaining and eye-opening.
Chapter Summaries:
[00:00:01]
Beyond the Rut is a podcast that shares encouraging stories and practical tools to help pull you out of your rut into a life worth living. On this episode, Jerry Dugan talks with Dan LeFebvre about his show Based on a True Story. Learning from history is crucial to a life beyond the rut. Those who are not aware of their history are doomed to repeat it.
[00:02:11]
Dan, How are you doing? I’m doing great. Thanks for having me on. My best not to geek out here because I think I’ve listened to your show about as long as I’ve been podcasting. Well, thank you very much for listening.
[00:02:41]
Andrew Keen: I love history, especially if it’s military history. And then the other thing that I love is movies. His show combines the two, and that’s based on a true story, those five famous words. Keen: At the beginning, you hook everybody with tooth truth and a lie.
[00:07:56]
How do you know a good source is a historical fact versus someone making it up on the fly? I usually go by the rule of thumb of at least three reputable sources. Sometimes we learn new facts. History changes. You have to be okay with that.
[00:13:58]
Jerry O’Connell served in Operation Iraqi Freedom. He says the excitement always shows up right when you’re ready to quit. To tell the story in a way that’s comprehensive, the writer has to pick and choose.
[00:16:33]
What kind of feedback do you get from your audience over the years? You’re hearing from me now since Podcast Movement 2022. Or sometimes it’s adding little tidbits here and there, which is great because I love movies and I love history. Everybody has a different perspective.
[00:18:39]
Dan started off the show as a passion thing on the side of his full-time gig. Once he started doing interviews, that’s when he started taking it full-time. It’s a great way to get closer to the source of information, too.
[00:22:35]
When you look at the past, it kind of gives you a pattern of behavior. You can almost use it to predict what can happen in the future if we don’t do something differently. The history of another country can’t be applicable to our history and vice versa.
[00:24:53]
There are some people throughout history that have used history in a negative way to try to do something negative. It’s like a Good inspiration to get more information, get more perspectives on something, and keep learning. There may be things in history that we didn’t know until we uncover new things.
[00:28:48]
Dan: When we’re looking at our own past, what is it from my past that I’m not thinking about? Maybe I picked up a bad habit from my parents who have gone through like five divorces. That’s one of the things that draws me to history is you can learn from the past to make a better future.
[00:33:57]
Dan: Family history is a great place to start. What’s on the horizon for your show? I’ve got an episode coming out soon about the Pirates of the Caribbean. I need you to go out there and live your lives beyond the rut.
Resources:
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Other episodes you’ll enjoy:
John Lee Dumas: Igniting Success with Journaling for 100 Days of Microbursts – BtR 338
Restored Becoming Better Not Bitter with Pastor Chris Brown – BtR 320
Your Testimony in Jesus – Someone Somewhere Desperately Needs to Hear It – BtR 319
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Transcript
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
history, people, episode, story, movie, talking, podcast, facts, dan, based, repeat, source, read, pattern, happened, book, life, doomed, world war, military
SPEAKERS
Dan LeFebvre, Jerry Dugan
Dan LeFebvre 00:00
You can, you can definitely learn from the past to make a better future. The other the other side of that is you also still have to want to make that better future and not just repeat the blog we talked about, we will repeat the problems of the past.
Jerry Dugan 00:13
Hey, Raider Nation, welcome to another episode of beyond the rut, the podcast that shares, encouraging stories and practical tools to help pull you out of your rut into a life worth living in the areas of your faith, your family and your career or business. I’m your host, Jerry Dugan. And on this episode, I’ve got Dan love Feb. He’s the host of a podcast called based on a true story. Because I love movies. And I love history. And this guy does a show that’s entirely about movies that are based on a true story. And I’ve just been a big fan of his show for years. So when I bumped into him at Podcast Movement, 2022, I was like, Hey, we gotta record, we never touched base with each other because we just had wild schedules. But we followed up afterwards. Here we are. And we’re going to be talking about his show, why he started it, what he loves about it, what he draws from learning about history in this way where you watch a movie, and then you start comparing it with actual historical accounts. And then how do you discern that what you’re reading is a good, authoritative piece of content. So how do you know that you’re reading the truth? Or some facts? Or you’re reading a complete fabrication or fiction? So how do you discern that? So we’re talking about that. But we’re also kind of addressing the age old piece of wisdom, that those who are not aware of their history are doomed to repeat it? And then how do you apply that to your personal life? Because that is the reality. If you’re not aware of your past, your family’s generational past, you are, in a sense, doomed to repeat those patterns. So that’s what we’re going to be doing, we’re going to be geeking out with Dan l’affaire. Because I’ve loved his show for years. And we’re going to be talking about why you need to know about history. How do you know you’re getting some good informational cross red cross references, and then is that piece of information truly based on a true story? So here we go. All right. Hey, Dan, thanks for joining me on this call. And I’m glad to finally get to chat with you. How are you doing?
Dan LeFebvre 02:17
I’m doing great. Yeah. Thanks for having me. I’m looking forward to it.
Jerry Dugan 02:20
Yeah. I’m doing my best not to geek out here. Because I mean, I, I think I’ve listened to your show about as long as I’ve been in podcasting. And so when I ever cross paths with somebody that, you know, I’ve listened to, it’s like, I internally geek out, so probably not supposed to share that with you. But it’s too late. It already came out.
Dan LeFebvre 02:39
Well, thank you very much for listening. I really appreciate it. Yeah.
Jerry Dugan 02:42
Well, I mean, because it blends the two things that I love. I love history, especially if it’s military history. Probably because my parents when I was seven thought that was the thing to raise my myself up on to, to learn how to read was like, hey, haven’t read this book. It was like the Civil War. How many this one? It’s like the Battle of Iwo Jima and the Battle of the Bulge I hear. So here, I’m
Dan LeFebvre 03:02
a sceptical childhood reading. Yeah,
Jerry Dugan 03:05
I guess that’s what happens when your dad’s in the army. It’s like, you’re getting the army stories. And so I just had this fascination for military history and how, you know, strategies were employed and tactics. And, you know, just the thinking outside the box that really made a difference in just how our history is what it is. And then the other thing that I love is movies. And so your show combines the two. And that’s based on a true story. They’ll say those five famous words, right? So what inspired you to start that show?
Dan LeFebvre 03:41
I mean, similar to you. So I’ve always been a huge fan of history from, for me, it was more my dad was a huge John Wayne fan. And so he very quickly went from like westerns, to the John Wayne world war two movies, you know, longest day and like, and so I grew up watching a lot of those world war two movies. It quickly went from John Wayne specific to pretty much any world war two movie. And then I just, I got fascinated by just reading some of the books and like, I also want to geek out a little bit, you know, I collected maps when I was a kid, right? So it’s kind of a nerdy thing to do. But in a lot of the military history books, you know, you see this the maps, which were where people went, and all this kind of stuff. So that caught my eye. And so it’s kind of a natural thing to start reading some of those military history books. I never really merged the two together into the show until I worked for a company where I taught the software that is used in feature films. And so I knew a lot of that kind of the back end of movie production. And then that company, was it merger and acquisition and then they shut down the office and at at the point at which they shut down the office, I was leading content marketing team, and we were running a podcast interviewing people that worked on movies and games. And so that got me into podcasting. And then it was, well, like, it kind of all came together, it all came together through lame is I explained us on the episode I’ve covered. I came home from a musical. And I was like, how much of this actually happened in the French Revolution? Like how much and I was just looking through everything, and then see all the streets. That was, oddly enough, no. But there were barricades. We know all that. And so all that kind of just merged together. And then all this other stuff, you know, my past history of just loving history and movies. And it was like, Hey, can I can I do a show about this? Because I, obviously I love movies in history. Maybe other people do too. And it kind of kind of went from there.
Jerry Dugan 05:43
Yeah. And I love how you do your show, because and hopefully, all of you listening in, you could check the show out because it is cool. And if you’re too lazy to read the history books, but you’ll watch the movie, come back to the show. And he kind of sorted out for you. This was back. This was fiction. And so at the beginning, you hook everybody with two truths and a lie. And I think my my average is around 92%. I think I get it right about 92. Maybe, hey, that’s good. Yes, good. I might be lying about it, that I’ve never actually recorded my track record.
Dan LeFebvre 06:17
I mean, I’m also just impressed that, you know, it’s like 92% like that mean, the fact that you know, that is pretty impressive.
Jerry Dugan 06:24
Yeah. I kind of cheat in the sense of I listen to the episodes where I’ve seen the movie, and I’m familiar with the historical background a little bit. But if I were to dive into like W E with Andrew Lowry, you chatted with what was that one?
Dan LeFebvre 06:39
Wallace Simpson and Edward King Edward. So when he abdicated throne like, Oh, yeah. For
Jerry Dugan 06:45
for her field. That one? Yeah. I would not get that one. Right. Well, I mean, you don’t have to know it, though. Beforehand, because you hook us at the beginning. Like, I’m gonna say three things. Two of them are true. One is a lie. And then you will unveil it throughout the episode. And so it really, if you listen to the episode, by the end, you’re like, Yes, I got it. But if you don’t pay attention, you’re like, What? No, and then you’re out. You’re out of luck. And so I really love that from a learning development perspective. It’s really neat, because it’s like, Alright, I gotta get this right. I gotta get this right. And it’s, it’s almost like taking a quiz at the end. Like, yeah, I got it. Right.
Dan LeFebvre 07:23
Yeah. And that’s, that’s, I mean, that’s kind of the purpose behind it. I mean, end of the day, it’s entertainment. You don’t, if you don’t get it, right, it doesn’t matter, right. But the it’s, I hope that it helps give things to listen to, throughout and it kind of, at least in in my mind that I’ve, it’s not like I came up with the idea of teachers and why. But when I when I hear that, it’s like, Oh, these are the things I know to listen for. And so I’m listening, I’m just a little bit closer. And that’s kind of the the idea behind that. And so it sounds like hey, it’s working.
Jerry Dugan 07:53
Yeah, at least on me. Now, a lot of episodes, are you running them solo? You’re telling the story. And so what kind of sources of information do you go to that to help you discern? You know, what in the movie was fat and what wasn’t? So how do you know you’re going to like, a good reputable source to say, that is historical fact versus, you know, some guy who’s kind of making this up on the fly just to sell some books?
Dan LeFebvre 08:20
Yeah, I mean, some of those are easier to identify than others. I mean, you can, you can, based on whoever the author is, you can usually tell right off the bat, if it’s somebody who’s just trying to sell some books, right. But I look for things like, you know, who the author is, if it’s, if it’s a book, if it’s a source, you know, if it’s documentary, who that is, but also, you know, where are their sources coming from and trying to be as not, not leaning towards one side or the other. But focusing more on the facts? It’s impossible to it’s gonna be a hard way to phrase this without coming off and sounding somewhat pessimistic, but it’s impossible to only state facts. Yeah. Because there are opinions as they say, History is written by the renters. And so history books have opinions in them based on who is writing them. And so you’re never going to get around that. And so to try to counteract that, and balance that you go for more than one source, I mean, I kind of usually go by, you know, rule of thumb of at least three, you know, at least three reputable sources. Some of it kind of depends too on what the facts are. If it’s something like Apollo 13 is a great example where it’s NASA, they document everything. It’s, and it’s NASA. So if there’s nobody else that’s going to have that information, they document everything. And if if they say one thing, I’m gonna I’m just going to take what they say as fact because nobody can say otherwise. Right? I mean, nobody else was there. An example that I like to give to it’s a little more vague is The very first episode that I did on on the Revenant telling the story of Hugh Glass, yeah, right. Yes, a lot of his story is him. Nobody else was there. So how much of it actually happened? Yeah. And in that episode, I tried to kind of play off that point of like, I’m going to get a lot of these things I’m going to say like this happened, this did not happen. But we always have to keep in mind, he was the only one there. And if you listen to that story, he liked to tell stories he liked to exaggerate, right. And he’s just one of those guys that likes to do that kind of thing. And he was the only one there. So we can only assume that you got to take a lot of this with a grain of salt. And so you’re gonna have to be okay with that, too, that there are some things in history. We don’t know the actual facts of everything that happened. And I try to explain a lot of that too. And some of the facts that are there that this is the accepted story, as we know right now, but sometimes things change. I can give another example where sometimes we learn new facts. When I did the The Imitation Game about Bletchley Park. That was episode number three, your podcast or so going back to listen to episode number three, it’s
Jerry Dugan 11:05
you know, it’s like don’t go there. Terrifying. Start on 20.
Dan LeFebvre 11:09
Started. Yeah, exactly. One of the one of the most intimidating things that I did for that was I had the chance to actually interview Mark cotton, who was the producer of the Bletchley Park official podcast, so he works with a team there at Bletchley Park. And he was kind enough to go back and fact check that episode for me episode number three. And I added that onto that. And then we did a whole nother episode. But some of the things that he factcheck was like, Well, when you recorded this in 2016, we didn’t know. But we found documents in our archives since then. So now we do. Oh, wow. And so there are some things that even for something that happened in World War Two, people are still doing research, we’re still finding things. There’s new archeological digs. There’s just new stuff. History always changes. So we always have to be okay with sometimes things change. And you have to be okay with constantly learning and constantly going back to that and never having the, well this is the way it was. And this is always the way it was because of this right. This is written in stone. Well, I mean, this might be what we think happened now, but that exactly,
Jerry Dugan 12:14
I think, as long as we have people pursuing PhDs in history or archaeology, they’re required to add to the body of knowledge. So they are going to dig until they find something. And so yeah, you’re gonna come across like a new translation of something or new perspective on documents that we’ve looked at, or just one new letter that turned up? Because somebody had a garage sale? And yeah, it’s yes.
Dan LeFebvre 12:38
Another great example from a recent episode if I go on tangents. When I talked to Joshua Devine Lavon, about the Dunkirk, he was the historical consultant on the movie Dunkirk. Yeah. And he made a great point about, specifically about the historical accuracy of that movie, for an event like that. And when we have a lot of these historical events that are huge events, it’s one person’s one person’s version of that events are going to be very different. Somebody else’s, you know, so a lot of the stories that we saw in that movie, for example, were based on some of the veterans that were there. And like, this is how this is what happened, this is how it happened. And even in that case, the most blatant example there would be how they thought that the RAF which just wasn’t there, they were they were flying planes, that the people on the shore couldn’t see because they wanted to get the Germans before they actually got there. Yeah. So they were there. They didn’t know it at the time. So from their perspective, they weren’t there. He told the story in that episode about, you know, one guy’s Dunkirk experience was he hid in a truck the entire time. That was his experience. Wow. And so his story, he was there, he’s a veteran, he was there. But his experience of that is very different than than some others. So that’s another thing you have to kind of keep in mind that even you know, people were there. It’s one person’s experience is going to be very different than somebody else’s.
Jerry Dugan 13:58
Yeah. Yeah. I remember. While I was in operation, Iraqi Freedom, and a lot of people think shock and awe like, Jerry, weren’t you like nonstop fighting for 21 days? I’m like, No, I slept a lot. And they’re like, what you were in combat? I’m like, yeah, there were battles. But like the first 24 hours other than the opening salvo it was like 24 to 36 hours just driving through the open desert. They just kept telling me Hey, Doc, go back to sleep. You know, nobody’s hurt. We’re just driving in the open desert. We get but something happens. And what
Dan LeFebvre 14:30
thank you for your service. Thank you. Yeah, that story does remind, I used to work for the Air Forces contractor and I had a chance to talk to a b2b pilot, who was who was in the area. And he said his very similar thing. I was like, oh, you know, what’s it like being a pilot? He’s like, very bored for a long time. And then extreme amounts of excitement and adrenaline, and then very bored for a long time. And, yeah,
Jerry Dugan 14:53
the excitement always shows up right when you’re ready to quit. You’re like, you know what, sure. I’m done this. This work sucks. I hate it. They talk to me. You’re like a kid. And I didn’t do any of the stuff that the recruiter told me I was going to do. And then you had that one moment for like five minutes, like, yeah. Then you’re like, oh, wait, I forgot I hated this job. That makes sense, though, like in Dunkerque. I mean, you had, you know, a couple 100,000 people there, I believe. And they didn’t all see exactly the same thing. They all weren’t on the same exact boats. And so to try to tell that story in a way that’s comprehensive, and gives the viewer a sense of what it was like there that you know, the the persons writing the stories have to pick and choose. I think Black Hawk Down is one of the the stories where I one of your episodes I really liked. Did you do Black Hawk Down? You did? Yeah. But zero, dark 30 is what I heard recently, same concept where you can’t have every single person portrayed because there are so many people involved that you wind up having to do what’s called a, what do they call them, where they blend multiple people together into one character as a character as a character. And so you still get the gist of what happened, how the people were the characters of the people who were on the ground, they’re just all composited or compiled into one character, because it’s easier to grasp when you see it on the film. And your show does a good job of separating that out like, Well, this one person was really for five people. And this is what we believe all these five people were doing separately, but then we get to convey that to you. We had to put it on one person. And so that’s that’s really neat that you break that down for everybody as well. What kind of feedback do you get from your audience over the years? Like, I mean, you’re hearing from me now since Podcast Movement 2022. But besides me, like how have people come forward and share their thoughts about how your shows, entertain them, or taught them or just giving them those aha moments?
Dan LeFebvre 16:51
It’s kind of a, it’s, it’s pretty across the board. I mean, there’s people, you know, who love military history, and they love those kind of movies. There’s a web, right, obviously, not military, but you know, there’s, I tried to do a range. And so I honestly could just do the entire series just on World War two movies, because there’s so many of them. But I try not to. But so so there’s kind of a range. And with that, you get a lot of differences in the amount of history that we know about things. You know, like with military history, probably some of the most documented types of history just because you have died, especially World War Two, because you have, you know, the Nazi Third Reich that just completely fell. So we have all their top secret documents and all that kind of stuff that you wouldn’t have from a war that were they didn’t, the government didn’t collapse, and you lose all that, get all that. So things like that, where there’s such a wide range that a lot of a lot of the feedback is how is it they, they love it, or sometimes it’s Oh, the adding adding little tidbits here and there. Which, which is great, because it’s one of those, it’s, I love movies, and I love history. So I love learning more things to have, there’s been a lot of people that have reached out and be like, oh, you know, I lived in that house or I was related to this person, or, you know, that kind of thing. And just adding a little tidbit to the story that I kinda like what we were talking about, you know, everybody has a different perspective. And so there’s all these other little stories that can help go into the overall story. And I think it just kind of helps. I love learning little tidbits like that. You’re never going to learn about stuff like that in a history book, you know about this one little thing, you know, that part of somebody’s family who happened to listen to the show and and reach out about that that’s not you may not read that in a history book.
Jerry Dugan 18:39
Now, is your show something that you do full time? Or are you like most of us and you’ve got like a day gig and then this is something that’s a passion project for you.
Dan LeFebvre 18:46
It is now so you mentioned earlier? How I have some that are just me. Yeah. And then now I’ve been doing interviews. So that transition, the reason why so I started off the show as a passion thing on the side of my full time gig. And then I was able to take it full time. And so once I went full time, it was a lot easier to actually be able to talk to the subject matter experts, and do it on their schedule, right? Instead of being like, you know, I could, I could talk to you on the weekends, or, you know, after I get off work, and they’re like, No, that’s not going to work for me. So initially, I was doing it part time, and that’s where all the solo episodes are. And then once I started doing interviews, if you go back through the back catalogue, you’ll see that transition happen. And that’s when I started taking it full time to kind of take advantage. I mean, I guess I could still do that solo episodes, and I’m hoping to be able to do do more of those in the future as well. But also being able to talk to people that the people that wrote the books, you know, and a lot of those. It’s just been fascinating for it’s so much fun for me to be able to actually just sit down and talk to him and the guy about that kind of history
Jerry Dugan 20:01
right? Now, it’s a great way to, to get closer to the source of information to because these guys have been researching the, what is known as like the primary source of information like you talked about earlier, you know, you go to NASA, that’s the primary source of information, a new story from that time period probably be a secondary source. And then somebody tweeting about it today would be more like a tertiary source. And too many of us kind of rely on tertiary sources as the only source. But talk into the, you know, these authors of these books who’ve written about some of these movies over the events that the movies are based on, I should say, they’re kind of the secondary source, but they’ve taken their information from a variety of primary sources and the depth that I mean, you already brought a lot of depth, hearing them talk they they bring in these nuances that you wouldn’t even think about, which are still very entertaining. Like I’m trying to think of an example right now but my mind is just getting flooded with them.
Dan LeFebvre 21:01
While some example you talking about the different sources and there I mean, yeah, there’s, there’s gonna be different levels. But some of them like you know, I had the chance to talk to like Joe Pistone, who was Donnie Brasco. So he was the one that was undercover. And they base the movie on his life. And so he was able to tell stories of things that happened there that you don’t see in the movie. I mean, you know, he has a book about it. And he has actually has his own podcast about it as well. But so there’s things that he was the source, or do you remember the movie tag from 2018, a comedy movie group of guys that just played tag for like, 20 years, I talked to some of the people that were actually the group of guys that play tag. And you know, they’re talking about they, it was great fun, just to laugh with them as comedy movie. So, you know, a lot of fun there, but they’re the source. They’re not a book written about them, you know, that there was a newspaper article that then they base the movie on, but they were the source. And so sometimes you can get to the source for some of those. And I tried to do that sometimes too.
Jerry Dugan 21:56
Nice. Nice. I didn’t realize it was based on true story. It’s
Dan LeFebvre 22:03
very loosely Yeah, concept is there. I mean, he listened to the episode, and they’re laughing about a lot of this stuff. Yeah. I mean, they, they took the concept, and they kind of ran with it. But you know, it’s a comedy. So it’s not meant to be super factual,
Jerry Dugan 22:16
like group fight over which one of them is played by Jeremy Renner.
Dan LeFebvre 22:22
Now that, not to my knowledge, they didn’t they didn’t mention the
Jerry Dugan 22:26
normal guy, whatever. That’d be me. I’m hockey.
Dan LeFebvre 22:31
I don’t think they got a choice and who was playing?
Jerry Dugan 22:33
That’s true. Oh, yeah. Now, one of the cool things that I love about history is, you know, there’s that saying that those who fail to learn their history are doomed to repeat it. And so that’s part of why I’m so fascinated by it. It’s kind of one of my top five strengths in the Clifton, or gallop Strengths Finder is context. Because you know, when you look at the past, it kind of gives you a pattern of behavior. And you can almost use it to predict what can happen in the future if we don’t do something differently. Are there any, like historical accounts that stand out to you that? I don’t want to phrase that question? It’s like, like, historical events that we should probably keep an eye on that if we don’t keep an eye on them, and be aware of ourselves that we’re doomed to repeat them. That’s without getting overly political, I guess.
Dan LeFebvre 23:24
Yeah, no, well, I think that the challenge with that is, there’s there’s so many just because life is so complex. And I mean, we’re both based in the United States, but our experience here in the United States is going to be very different than somebody in a different country. And, but that doesn’t mean that the history of another country can’t be applicable to our history, and vice versa. And that’s where starts to get to be so complex. I think that the key though, is kind of what you’re saying the pattern, were kind of like, what I was saying, like with sources, you know, I tried to do a minimum of three, at least, you know, valid sources, but also, you know, finding that pattern, because there can be, for lack of a better way to phrase it one off things that happen, and basing what you do in the future on a one off thing that happened, you know, Apollo 13, you’re talking about that, right? I mean, if we based our space program on that, what’s the point? It’s just going to blow up when we get to space? Right? What’s the point of ever trying it again, right. So you based on on pattern, but also with the idea, like what we were talking about before to where things can change, right? So just because something happened in in history, like it doesn’t really mean that that’s 100% the way that that happened, and that means that also, it might not be how it happens in the future, because there might be elements to the story that we don’t really know that could have factored in something you the phrase that you mentioned, you know, doomed, doomed to repeat history is something I like to kind of mention when somebody He kind of mentions that phrase is there are some people throughout history that have used history in a negative way to specifically try to do something negative. You can we all like to point back to you know, World War One World War Two, the Nazis, right everybody goes that way. In his his biography, John Toland I believe he was the Pulitzer Prize author who wrote the like a Hitler biography, fantastic book if you get a chance to read it. But in that book, he talks about how Hitler studied the United States and their history and how they treated the Native Americans, and how they, you know, with starvation, and just complete different forms of technology, that to just obliterate them in so many ways. And use that and we know what the Nazis did, right? And so there are people who use it to negative effect. And I think that’s something that we also need to keep in mind too, because you may be doomed to repeat it. But unfortunately, there are people out there who are trying to repeat it, and not necessarily trying to repeat it in a way that is positive.
Jerry Dugan 26:07
And what irony to that? Yeah, that came from our past that gave the idea of how to execute the Holocaust to
Dan LeFebvre 26:15
there’s, there’s some rather somber things, when you look at a lot of that history. There’s more history that that particular connection, the Nazis looked at a lot of the racial segregation and things like that in the United States, as well as the Jim Crow laws and things like that. In a lot of their things. I mean, it wasn’t just the United States, they look, there were don’t want me to pick on that. Like, that’s the only thing like that aspect. But I think that’s another thing too, about the patterns, right? Where you can you can pick these out? And if that’s the only thing that you focus on, well, then yeah, you can pick say that muck, oh, well, we’re gonna go that route too? Well, no, not necessarily. Because there’s a lot of other factors involved, too. And I think that’s where the pattern starts to come in. Yeah, like you were saying,
Jerry Dugan 27:00
it’s like a good inspiration, like, get more information, you know, get more perspectives on something.
Dan LeFebvre 27:05
keep learning, keep learning and keep learning from those credible sources. And even though they’re credible sources, you keep learning from other credible sources, too, because those credible sources may be wrong, because you know, and that that may be the case, too. I’m not saying that they’re trying to specifically mislead, but there may be things in history that we didn’t know until we uncover new things.
Jerry Dugan 27:25
Exactly. And I was quoting Colin Powell to somebody over the week, buddy of mine, but when I went on a camping trip with because we were talking about primary source information, secondary source, what is valid information, what is not and, you know, people kind of react to headlines and initial reports. And I was like, you know, I’m always reminded of something Colin Powell said in one of his biographies, or autobiographies, and that was in his military career, and even through his political career, he’d never trusted the initial report of anything. To him, that was the most incomplete, far off point report he would ever have. And so as soon as that initial report came in, it was like his Aha, red flags go up. But rather than acting on that initial report, he’d go and demand more information, go find out more find out this, this and this. And that comes in go, I need more go get more and look at it from these perspectives. And it’s almost like the JD Salinger who wouldn’t look at anything until they get the third draft. And it’s like now and I’ll get your best work. So I’ll look at it now. It was kind of like that. It’s like, you know, just keep getting more information from different perspectives, different sources, and now you’ve got a bigger picture to work with, and you can fine tune it and then make a better decision from there. And, I mean, we’re talking kind of high level from like government levels and entities and so on. But I think this also applies on a personal level for us, you know, the show’s called Beyond the right guys, I had to bring it in. Yet, when we’re looking at our own pasts, whether it’s our own past performance over and over again, you know, I go from one horrible relationship to the next to the next to the next. There’s, there’s kind of a constant in there, it’s probably me. So what am I doing? repeatedly? That is probably turning people off or turning people away. You know, what is it from my past that I’m not thinking about? Maybe I picked up a bad habit from my parents who’ve gone through like five divorces. I’m making all this up guys right now. So I’m doing the math real quick. I have three, four. Yeah, I was close. My parents have gotten I think three or four divorces in their lives together combined. So it’s like, you know, in domestic violence, for example, I’ve worked in an organization where one of the programs was a batterer intervention program. And one of the things that broke the director’s heart about that program was that there was one group session she was running and she is looking at across the person, the circle, and it’s this elderly gentleman who’s been in her program multiple times, and she’s like, oh, man, this guy As never gonna get it. And then she realizes the guy sitting next to him is his son, who’s in his mid life. And he’s like, I’ve seen that guy multiple times, when’s he gonna get it. And then for the first time, sitting next to that guy was his son, and he was in his early 20s. And it just kind of hit her. She’s like, I remember that man’s story, the older of the three. And I remember this guy, the middle aged guy, stories, this is the son they’ve mentioned, in their stories. And now he’s here too. And it just kind of hit her. Like, the only way that cycle is gonna break is one of them needs to realize that there is a cycle, and they gotta do something differently. And, and she just hoped that one of them would get it and make a change. Never got to hear if they if either those three guys themselves got it, but that that just stuck with me. I’m like, wow, you know, that’s an extreme case, domestic violence. But I mean, it could be poverty, it could be my career, you know, just my dad was an accountant. I became an accountant, both of us hated being accountants, and we think life sucks. And it’s like, Well, why don’t you want to change it? What would it take to change that? It’s like, I think that’s part of why I love history. It’s, it can be entertaining, but we can also learn from it. And I don’t know if it’s the same for you.
Dan LeFebvre 31:15
Yeah, well, I mean, you beyond the right, right, what is a rut? But a pattern of things that have been have happened before? Right? You build a rut from things that have happened before? Yeah, I think I think so. To me, that’s one of the things that draws me to history is you can you can learn, you can, you can definitely learn from the past, to make a better future. The other the other side of that is, you also still have to want to make that better future and not just repeat, like we talked about, we will repeat the problems with the past. Because there are definitely things in the past that are impersonal past that. We all make mistakes, and we can all do it again. But if you want the same result, you’re going to do the same thing again, right? Or you can try something different. Part of part of my background in marketing, I remember I was when I first got into that whole setting with content marketing, podcasting, and that side, talking to then my, my manager, who is a marketing genius, and I asked him was like, Okay, what’s the basic concept of marketing, he’s like, try something. And if it works, keep going that way, if it doesn’t go a different direction, it’s trial and error. I mean, because everything, everything changes, and it’s the same sort of thing with life to some degree. I mean, every day, we have a chance to try something different. Maybe not everything, but you know, try something a little bit different. And if it works, right, you, you go on, and what do you try different? Well, that’s in personally, that’s where I look, to history to try things to get new ideas, read books, go to the sources, you know, get ideas for ways to continually change, and, you know, try to do the best you can and continually, hopefully improve. If something doesn’t improve, then you know, you, yeah, change that. Hopefully.
Jerry Dugan 33:00
Awesome, awesome. I love that we’re able to make that turn in little discussion. So yeah, it wasn’t just me getting up here to geek out with with Dan and talking about history the whole time, there was a purpose behind it. And hopefully, you’ve been encouraged to, you know, take a deeper dive into the history around you your own history, your family history, your community history, or just, you want to just keep connecting the dots between a film that you really liked. And the research that Dan has is guests that pulled together. So Dan, if somebody does want to go check out your show, or get more from you, where can they go?
Dan LeFebvre 33:35
Based on a true story? podcast.com It’s got everything all the links to whatever podcast app you’re using. All the episodes are there. Listen right away if you want to.
Jerry Dugan 33:45
Nice and then while you’re there, that website, buy him a cup of coffee. That icon in the lower right, you can’t miss it. Right there fill up this year. Exactly as I’m slipping mike up to what’s on the horizon for for your show.
Dan LeFebvre 34:00
Um, I’ve got an episode coming out soon about Pirates of the Caribbean. So that was a lot of fun. I don’t know if you’ve seen. There’s a show on Netflix called the lost kingdom, which is all about like the golden era of pirates. It was actually really well done. I thought it was like a mini series Docu drama, where they had some experts in a documentary style, but they also acted a lot of it out. Colin Woodward is one of the guys that they talked to a Pulitzer Prize nominated author. And so I had him on the show to talk about that. I did an episode speaking of Netflix, the Jeffrey Dahmer series, covering that as well. And then, you know, gotta go back to some classics. I got Spartacus coming out, you know, the classic movie. So trying to get quite a range of different things out there.
Jerry Dugan 34:50
Nice. Nice. And before we go, any final words of wisdom?
Dan LeFebvre 34:54
I would say what you’re saying. history, family history is a great place to start if you’re not sure where to start family history. is great. See what sort of things from your own history, family history, you can learn? What are some of those ruts? And what can you do different tomorrow to try to change that trajectory?
Jerry Dugan 35:10
Nice. Dan, I had a great time talking with you. And hopefully we get to connect at the next podcast movement, if not sooner.
Dan LeFebvre 35:17
Yeah, definitely. Thanks so much for having me
Jerry Dugan 35:19
on. Oh, man, I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. I as I’m listening to it right now with you, I was just still blown away. I’m like, I can’t believe I got to sit down with Dan, have a conversation with him. And he didn’t like get a restraining order against me for being so weird. It turns out he lives close to so I mean, I’m Dan, you don’t need a restraining order. I’m just saying, I was excited to talk with you. That’s all I’m saying. Okay. So for all of you. Go check out the show notes at beyond the rut.com/ 339. And there, you’ll be able to find links to his show his website, provide him some support, maybe provide me some support, if you like. But also you can just share this with your friends, your family members, your co workers, that neighbor across the street, all that good stuff. I’m just still excited from this conversation. So hopefully, you picked up on some of the things I did that, you know, again, if we’re not aware of our history, going back generations, we’re kind of doomed to repeat it. That when you’re presented with a nice story or sensational news article, how do you dig a little bit deeper to know that what you’re digging into truly is the facts, or somebody’s twisting of the facts or perception of the facts and so on, so that you can paint your own picture for yourself. Man, you know, tell me, you know, email me at info at beyond the red.com. And let me know what you thought about this episode, maybe leave a review on Apple Podcast. I’m just so excited. I don’t want to let you guys go. But I need to let you go. I need you to go out there and live your lives beyond the rut. So until next time, go live life beyond the rut. Take care
