change things up to keep making progress beyond the rut

The Plateau: Why You Need to Change Things Up to Keep Making Progress

Why is it so difficult to start and maintain a podcast? You will learn why you need to change things up maintain a podcast or any endeavor worth pursuing.

change things up to keep making progress beyond the rut

Originally published on January 5, 2016

“If you open one thing and it crashes, then start something else. It’s not that big a deal. It’s not a death sentence to start something new.”

I’m a proud member of the Lima Charlie Network. If you open one thing and it crashes, then start something else. It’s not that big a deal. It’s not a death sentence to start something new. Welcome to another episode of the Rut podcast. I’m your host, Jerry. My co-host, Brandon and I, are excited about this new direction and the new thing that we’re doing. We’re trudging or trailblazing forward because this is still kind of new for us as a joint venture. I’m still relatively new to podcasting myself. I’ve been hosting the family Time Q and A podcast for two years, but I’m still learning a lot. And that’s the key. If you listen to a lot of podcasts, you probably thought

In this episode, you will learn the following:
1. What made the hosts of Beyond the Rut decide to take a different direction with their podcast?

2. What were some of the things that didn’t work out when they first started the podcast?

3. What did they do to rejuvenate themselves and the podcast when they felt like they were in a rut?

Chapter Summaries:
[00:00:00] – Beyond the Rut is a podcast about inspiring people to live the life they’ve always dreamed of. Brandon Cunningham is the host of the podcast. Brandon is still new to podcasting. Jerry’s friend Davidson is launching a podcast called the Leaders Foundry. Brandon would like to get Davidson on the show. There’s someone in the world to help people get out of their Rut. It’s about creating something new and getting out of your comfort zone. ”I thought my brother was a little cat so I started petting him and saying oh kitty I already went there“. (Of all the quotes we could have used.)

[00:04:35] – Brandon and Jerry want to bring some people who have done the work to get out of their comfort zone onto their show. Some of them have restraining orders against them. Brandon is willing to go to prison for you by violating the restraining orders to let you live your dreams. (Well, not really.)

[00:05:33] – At the end of the year. It’s a great time to do an evaluation of your year. Brandon, Jerry, and Shawn decided to start a podcast at the beginning of 2015. It took too long to get started and they didn’t do a lot. Accountability became a big need for them once they divvied up the tasks and the areas of responsibility. They got the website up, they got the social media, and recorded a couple of episodes, but they needed a little better equipment. It took a lot of work to grow a podcast. It’s not about making money. It’s about creating an environment where people can think about what they can do. He’s going to let that soak in for a bit and then go do something else.

[00:11:27] – When he launched his Twitter account, he didn’t see immediate results. It took him three months to reach 600 followers. Now he’s at 636 followers. He doesn’t follow people to get them to follow back and then unfollow them. He’s not going to buy followers.

[00:14:30] – There are plateaus in weight loss and business. It’s not time to throw in the whole towel. The show is about going against the grain and focusing on one’s strengths instead of focusing on everything else. It might be the last time he’s ever on this podcast, but he might have two more years more, and we even hit our first plateau, in a sense.

[00:18:51] – Brandon shares some of the plans for 2016 with Jerry and the team. They want to bring more people out of their comfort zone and bring them to their own paths. They are going to do a lot more interviews, and they are also going to watch a Spartan race in Houston in March. In 2017. They want to take the show on the road. 

Links and Resources

The Leaders Foundry – a podcast that explores leadership by interviewing current and former people managers sharing insights from the trenches.

Jerry’s Life Plan Template on Evernote (It’s free, go make a copy and use it yourself.)

Listen to Beyond the Rut Episodes and Blog Posts We Think You’ll Enjoy

Is It Time To Change Jobs, Careers, Or Bloom Where Planted? (Blog Post)

Adopt an Attitude of Gratitude and Change Your World – BtR 175

6 Ways to Immediately Boost Your Energy When You’re Recognizing Burnout – BtR 317

Episode Credits

Hosts: Jerry Dugan and Brandon Cunningham


Beyond the rut is a proud member of the Lima Charlie Network. If you open one thing and it crashes, then start something else. It’s not that big a deal. It’s not a death sentence to start something new. Welcome to another episode.

Welcome to Beyond the Rut podcast, I’m your host. Jerry would be on the rut. I hope you yeah. And of course, with me is the other host that you’re very familiar with. You’ve heard him all the episodes so far, and that’s Brandon Cunningham.

How are you doing, Brandon? I’m awesome, as always. Great. Now, for those who are new to the podcast, this is a podcast about inspiring you to live the life you’ve always dreamed of. So, Brandon, how you been?

I’m great. I am excited about this kind of new direction and the new thing that we’re doing, and I can’t wait to get started. Yeah, same here. And thank you for letting me dust the microphone off here and put my hosting skiers to the test. I love it.

If some of you have been listening, we made a little change. Sean’s kind of taken a backseat for a while, and we brought Jerry out of the back room with all the dust and the mice and the things that go on back there. We’re going to put them in front. And Jerry hosts his own podcast on other days. So the it’s the family Q and A, you can find out about that.

But Jerry has been a huge part of beyond the Rep from the very beginning, so it’s not like we brought in somebody new. We just kind of reshuffled some shares. So it’s all good. So we’re still, I don’t know, trudging forward. Is that the right?

I think so, yeah. Or trailblazing forward, because this is still kind of new for us as a joint venture. I’m still relatively new to podcasting myself. I mean, family Time Q and A podcast has been around for two years. However, I’m still learning a lot.

Trailblazing, I think, is the word to go with there you go. Yeah. And that’s the key. If you listen to a lot of podcasts, you probably thought, well, I wish I could do something like that. Obviously, if we’re doing it, it’s not too hard.

You can get into this. Yes. And there’s a lot of information out there, and you can even just email us or tweet us at Beyond The Rut, and we’ll be more than happy to talk you through some stuff. In fact, a friend of mine, Davidson Young, he’s launching a podcast called The Leaders Foundry. I’m looking forward to seeing some of those episodes come around.

And his motto is, Leaders are made, not born. He’s got a big background with leadership development through Google. You’ve probably heard of them. And I think he’s somebody I’d like to get on the show at some point because he’s kind of the essence of what the show is about living the life you’ve always wanted. And at some point, he decided he’s done all he could with Google and he’s left and launched his own business and now podcast.

So it’s just kind of neat. Little shout out to Davidson there. That’s great. Yeah, that’s awesome. When somebody leaves a company like Google to go do something extraordinary, it’s like, how do you leave Google to do that?

Sometimes that’s the right answer. One of the things that you’re going to notice, too, is that you’re probably listening to this towards the end of the year, maybe at the beginning of the year, depending on when you downloaded it. But we’re kind of going in a different direction. Instead of just hearing from us, we’re going to bring in some guys like this and that. You can hear that just started out and decided, I can do this.

Let’s see what happens. The worst thing that can happen is you fail and you just accomplish nothing. That’s it. Nobody dies. Nobody’s going to yell at you.

You just start something else. If you open one thing and it crashes, then start something else. It’s not that big a deal. It’s not a death sentence to start something new. Hearing their stories, hearing the vulnerability in them, the fears that they face, the challenges they face, and then what they’re doing to overcome those, to still reach their dreams, I think that is going to be great.

It will provide a lot more dynamic than just Brandon and I telling our story, because after a while, we become two dimensional and you’ll probably get bored with us. We’ll have to start telling obscure stories from when we were three years old. And I thought my brother was a little cat, so I started petting him and saying, oh, Kitty, I already went there. See? Okay, we need to bring other people off.

That’s why there’s a therapist in the world. He was an adorable kitty. He was little. Yeah. And that’s kind of the key.

We’re going to get tired of hearing ourselves. You’re going to get tired of hearing us. But most importantly, beyond the rut, is about just creating something new, getting outside of your comfort zone. And so we want to bring in some guys and some gals that have done some things to get out of their comfort zone. Fortunately, because of the year that we live in, we have access to the world and we have all these people that have started businesses and speaking and just all kinds of things that we can draw upon.

And we’ve reached out to them, and some of which we’ve made friends with and some of which we’ve made maybe acquaintance with, and some have restraining orders against us. But that’s okay. We’re going to reach out to them and try to get them on our show and let you hear the difference between somebody who accomplishes something and somebody who just wished they did. And we want you to spend less time wishing and more time doing. Now, what I took away from that was Brandon just promised that he and I are willing to go to prison for you by violating restraining orders, just so that you can legally go out there and make your own path and live your dreams out.

Absolutely the kind of risk we’re going to take. Maybe what we really want to focus on, if you’re listening to this at the end of the year or the beginning of the year, it’s a great time to kind of do an evaluation of your year. And way back at the beginning of 2015, we met Jerry and Sean and I, and we decided this was something we wanted to get started. It took way too long to get started, but we met a lot of times, we emailed a lot of times and we talked a lot, but we didn’t do a lot. Some of those things work and some of them didn’t.

And so what we want to talk a little bit about kind of quickly is the things that worked and the things that didn’t. And starting this, it’s easy to look at us and say, oh yeah, but you had Jerry that knew how to do a podcast, you had guys that just wanted to talk and you had Topics and you had all this content and it was easy for you guys. It would be a huge disservice to you to say any of that was true. Gerry was just starting out, so we knew he knew more than we did. So that’s why we said, hey, join us and see if we can pull some of this stuff off.

We quickly assign tasks and thought, well, now we’ve got organization, everybody will do what they need to do. That was not even close. Everybody kind of went off on their own direction and I did almost nothing. Yeah, accountability became a big need for us once we divvied up the tasks and the areas of responsibility. It was now like, all right, this person is in charge of content, this person is in charge of media, this person is in charge of business development.

And then like a month or go by and then we’re like, hey, did you develop the business? Did you write anything? No. Did you develop any of our media? I got to go buy Click Accountability.

Once we started building some of those accountability pieces in though, that’s I think where we started to see some of our successes come in, we realized, okay, somebody is not going to go do this for us. Once we started holding our own selves accountable, then we had a website come up, then we had a marketing plan come together. Then we had social media accounts come together. We started having topics come together. I think that was a key shift for us about, what would you say, June, July, probably about July we started to get some direction.

The problem was we got all of that direction. We got the website up, we got the social media. Then we recorded a couple of things and they were horrible. Fortunately, you didn’t get to hear much of that. But we did that.

We realized really quick we needed a little better equipment, not a lot better. We didn’t spend a lot of money. 25, $30 and get a little better microphone, some better headphones. And we got Skype is free, obviously Call recorder was free. I think I ended up paying something, $10 for the license or whatever it was.

And we kind of got started really good. And then once we did all of that, we didn’t know what else to do next. We thought, well, this content will just come, we’ll record once a week and it’ll be awesome and we’ll love it, everybody else will love it. And that didn’t really quite happen. So the Grind hit us, is that what you’re saying?

Basically, yes. Yeah, I would agree. We do this prep work. I wouldn’t say January to June was a waste. I think a lot of heavy discussions happened that determine the name of the show, the direction of the show, the roles of our team, and then the next two months after that we kind of installed on pulling the trigger.

A lot of excitement though, going up to August and then we launched and that’s when the grind happen that Brandon is talking about. And so now we went from all exciting, all new to record. Give it to Jerry. Jerry process, Jerry post Brandon talk about it, generate buzz on top of all that. I mean, this isn’t what we’re doing full time.

That was key the whole time. Gerry is traveling, Sean’s. Traveling. I’ve got kids in school and we’ve all got kids, we’ve all got day jobs, we’ve all got other responsibilities outside of our day jobs. Plus this, plus our wives are all saying, okay, this is taking up a lot of time and it’s generating absolutely no income whatsoever.

It’s just sucking time out of our families. If anything, it’s costing a little bit of money. We got to the point where like, okay, we’re here, we launched and nothing happened. Now every week we’ve got to record something that’s of value. Then Jerry’s got to edit something of value out of that.

Take that 30 minutes of just pure stupidity sometimes and make it into something that sounds intelligent and you put it out there and you hope like 100 million people are going to download it and everything’s going to be great. But the next week you got to do it again. Then you got more travel, more illness, the kids get sick, whatever, things happen. And you try to drum up that energy every week and it got too much. So that’s when it really started to hit that we didn’t have a good plan for longevity.

You may not necessarily need that to start your business, whatever it is. Maybe it’s a podcast, maybe it’s not, but you at least need people around you that are not willing to give up on it. And that’s kind of what we did. And it took a lot of conversations of, what do we want to do, ultimately? And ultimately our plan with this podcast was not to make a billion dollars.

It was to create an environment that you could think what you could do. It’s not about us. It’s about what you could do. And wherever you are and whatever your world needs, providing that gift, whatever it is, I’m just going to let that soak in for a bit. That was good.

Just making sure my head, that you didn’t already address this. We launched. We found ourselves in the grind, and we didn’t see immediate results. I think that’s the key thing there. How many people launched and they don’t see those immediate big numbers.

When did you start to feel the strain and then how did you snap out of it or reinvigorate yourself if you even felt that strain? I think for me, we started out with a Twitter account, and we hit like 100 followers, and then we hit 200. And if you’re not familiar with Twitter, twitter is a weird place. It’s a place where you can get 100 followers or a million followers if you’re showing porn, or you’re just being completely irreverent and just kind of ridiculous. And it’s really hard to get genuine followers.

You get a lot of just kind of businesses and people that follow you that want you to follow them. And when we hit 100 and then we hit 200, and then we hit 300, and then it got to the point where we were adding about 100 a month, and that became a number for me, and I’m OCD. So once I got that number per month, I was like, oh, well, now we have to hit 400 in the fourth month and 500. But for some reason, when we hit 600, we stopped. We slowly climbed.

And I think now and I was trying to pull it up, I think we’re at about 636 followers now. That 36. To get over 600 took us about probably three months. Even though we were gaining a hundred a month, it stopped, because that’s the point. This is my research.

I don’t know what Twitter will tell you or the world will tell you, but that’s when we started getting real followers as opposed to just general people that wanted to be on your Twitter. And it became disheartening to me because I thought, why aren’t we growing the way we were? What can we do? And we made a decision early on, and I’m not saying it’s the right decision, but it was right for us. We’re not going to buy followers.

We’re not going to do that whole scam where you get a million followers. For whatever reason, we were going to build it from the ground up no matter what. And we’re also not going to follow people to get them to follow back and then unfollow them right away. I run into that all the time. That’s messed up.

And I didn’t know that going in that we would follow somebody and then all of a sudden we would get less followers. I didn’t understand why that happened. I waited for it to turn to 500 or to 600, and the next thing I know, it’d be at 499 or 599. I was like, wait a minute, how did that happen? And that’s when I realized that’s what people were doing, following us.

And then once we follow back, they unfollow. And so there are pitfalls along the line. This is not a straight shot. You’re going to have little failures along the line. And that’s totally okay because no business, no venture, no risk is ever going to be taken that there’s not pitfalls along the line.

Yeah, I’d probably want to add to that with anything, you’re going to hit these plateaus. So with weight loss, you lose weight. You lose weight. And also and you’re not losing weight as much, and it’s like, whoa, what happened? Well, you got to change things up now because your body caught on to what you’re doing.

And so now we have to hold on to that fat. So now you got to change it up a little bit. Not a whole lot like you’re still working out, you’re still eating healthy, but you just do a minor adjustment, and all of sudden, A, you start getting those results again. Then you hit another plateau, and it’s like, okay, what’s going on now? Make another minor adjustment and then the weight starts coming off again.

I think that’s kind of what we run into with business as well, is you get to start, whether it’s a big explosive one or a gradual build up, you get the start, you see that growth, it’s steady. And also you hit that plateau. And I think for us, what we realized was it’s not time to throw in the whole towel. I think that was the decision we all came to was we’re not going to throw in the towel on this. This is something needs to keep going.

We just need to make some minor adjustments. So where do we feel like the show is strongest? Where do we feel there are some gaps? Let’s go ahead and close up some of those gaps. Let’s focus on our strengths.

And so having a conversation about things like this, like those vulnerable moments, those moments of almost wanting to quit, but then just pushing a little bit further, I think that’s going to be something neat about this show. And we’re kind of like about going against the grain. We’re about, yes, you have the career, you have the family, you have the kids. There’s just something missing, it’s because maybe you’ve given up what you really wanted. And we’re kind of the show that’s saying, what if you could have the family and the career you’ve always wanted and make the impact in the world you always wanted and have the finances you always wanted and have those six pack ABS?

I want to get those. Hang it. I want to work on that. But wait, there’s more for six. That’s exactly right.

You know, when we’re kids, we climb up on the roof, we climb that tree, we go underneath the house, we go around that dark alley, we riff something, but we get older and we stop doing that. And you’re exactly right. That’s what this podcast is about. It’s like, you can have that adventure and be a good husband and a good father and a good person that serves their community and their church and their world, is a good citizen and risks some things. It’s okay to live that way because we all have a set amount of time on this planet.

Don’t spend it waiting to die. I hate to hear and I’ve said this before in previous podcast, I hate to hear anybody say, oh, I can’t wait till Friday. Really? It’s just one day closer to you dying. Live your life.

Enjoy today. Get it? It’s Monday, but still live it. Yeah. What if you lived today as if it were the last one?

What would you be doing? Yes, I was listening to a podcast the other day. This lady got multiple sclerosis and she totally changed everything about her life. And it’s a great story and I don’t remember her name, but that part is not really relevant as much as it is. I was thinking, what if I just lived?

Like I had Ms just live that way every day. Quit eating bad and wasting time and worrying about stuff, but just live this. I don’t know if I’ve got two days or two months or two years. I don’t know. Well, technically, literally, we don’t know.

This might be the last time I’m ever on this podcast. I might have two more days. I might have two more years. I might have 200 more years. I don’t know.

But at some point it’s going to end. Why not live that way now instead of thinking, I’m going to work here another 20 years, and then I’ll retire and then I’ll raise goats or whatever it is you want to do, but why not do that now? Yes. What’s the name of that island? Someday isle.

Yeah. Let’s stay away from Sunday Isle and let’s go get it. Go do it. Start making that your own path to that life. I think 2015, we had our start, we had our vision, we had our purpose.

We still have those things. And we even hit our first plateau, in a sense, like we regrouped. We reminded ourselves of our vision. So, Brenda, why don’t you share with folks some of the things we have on tap for 2016. And I guess, heck, throw in 2017 while you’re at it.

I think one of the great things that we do, and Jerry does a better job of this than me, but at the end of the year, don’t dwell on what happened, but kind of evaluate it. Look at it, be honest about it. I said I was going to lose £50 or £10 or £1, and I didn’t really do any of that. I said I was going to build this or go here or do that, and I didn’t do any of that. And be honest with yourself, because you’re not publishing this, but just be honest with yourself in your 2016 goals.

And that’s kind of what we did. We’re not afraid to change the things that didn’t work. Admit some things didn’t work. But in 2016, what we want to do is bring you more people that have stepped out of that comfort zone, stepped out of that rut, and said, you know what? I’m going to make my own path.

I’m going to do my own thing. So we’re going to bring you some people around the world from Indonesia to Washington State, right here in Corpus Christi, Texas. Corpus really broken out of that rut and said, I’m not going to live like that anymore. And one of the things that we want to do is change it up enough that we’re telling you the real stories. We don’t want to bring anybody on that says, yes, my life was perfect from the beginning.

It was perfect in the middle, and it’s perfect now. There are great stories to be told, but they’re all in the beginning failures, because you have to know what you can’t do in order to know what you can do. And we want to bring you those stories in 2016. So we’re going to focus on that. We’re going to do a lot more interviews, and by a lot more, I mean some, because we’ve done none.

So we’re going to do interviews in 2016. We’re also going to do some things. One of the things that we talked about the other day was we’re going to go to Houston, and I think it’s March, and we’re going to watch a Spartan race. And if you’re not familiar with Spartan races, they are something of an anomaly out there where these men and women just go through these obstacles and they run these three KS and five KS, and I don’t know what KS to accomplish these goals. And we’re going to go watch one, and we’re not going to run it.

And I know that’s a bit of a cop out, but we’re going to watch it and say, hey, can we do this? And we’re going to go do it at some point next year, we’re going to go do this and see what we can do. But we’re also talking about maybe going to the World Domination summit. The Podcasting summit? We’re going to do some things that we don’t have the money for, the resources for, the intelligence for, but we’re going to go get involved in it.

And that’s what we’re hoping you come along for, is just join us in an adventure to try to do more than what you thought you could do in 2015. And I believe in 2017, we’re going to look at how to bring the show on the road. In a sense, we’re going to evaluate the end of 2016 and see if there’s a need that you and the audience has that we have been addressing, and maybe we could bring that to you, your company. We don’t know what exactly that’s going to look like yet, but we’re going to be brainstorming ideas all through 2016 on how we can provide even more value to you, our audience. Right?

And that’s key. We want to add value to your life. We’re not wanting you to send us a dollar or buy a book or do something that’s going to make us money. We want to add value to your life. And like Jerry said, we might go to Idaho and host a show with somebody that we really want to interview in person, maybe not over Skype.

Maybe we want to go to Canada and talk to somebody. And you might be asking yourself, well, yeah, that’s great for them, but what about me? I can’t afford to do that. Well, guess what? We can’t either.

But we’re believing in great things because we’re just being obedient to the call of doing something outside of our comfort zone. We believe that something’s going to come out of that. You just made me think of Robert Kiyosaki. One of his quotes that resonates with me is making the shift from saying, I can’t afford to do that, whatever that is. Shift that thinking, to, how can I afford to do that?

So if I can’t afford to go back to school to get that degree to move up in my career, shift it. How can I go ahead and afford to go back to school to get that degree so I can make more money? If I can’t afford to take my wife out every week on date night, ask yourself, how can I make some changes in my expenses to afford to take my wife out on date night? Oh, man, I said that all wrong, didn’t I? But it’s so true.

We live in 2015. The resources are there. Yes. If you’re constantly worried about ISIS and gun control and all these bad things that are happening on the news, focus on what you can do. Just like Jerry said, what can you do?

Not what can’t you do? Let’s focus on that part and just make 2016 an extraordinary year for everyone around us. Great. Our phrase maybe at least mine is going to be, It’s not. I can’t.

That will help me succeed. It is I can that will help me succeed. And I was just thinking about an episode that Olivia and I watched of a show called The Amazing Race. The couple that just got knocked out, they were doing a challenge, and all of a sudden, one of the competitors shifted from I can do this, I’m going to do this, and shifted herself. Talk to I can’t, I can’t do it, I can’t.

It’s impossible. And sure enough, she couldn’t do it, and they dropped out of the race. We don’t want you to drop out of the race in 2016, whatever your race is. We’re not dropping out of our race because we’ve shifted from I can’t and this isn’t happening, to how can we make that happen? How are we going to succeed?

And we’re going to share that with you. So, Brandon, what would you like to say to close us out and launch us into 2016? I think that’s a great way to end the year and just say, I’m not going to sit around and worry about what I can’t do. Like I said, we’re going to go watch the Spartan race. Neither one of us have ever run one.

We are not in top physical condition or anything like that, but we’re willing to put ourselves out there and say, I’m not going to win it, but I can pay the entry fee, get on the starting block, and I can run it. And it makes not take me two days to finish it, but I’m going to finish it one way or the other. If I can finish it before they put everything up, I’m going to do it. And that’s what I would say. It’s just Beyond The Rut is about getting beyond previous thinking of whatever your mom or dad said or you believed, or people around you.

Start looking at what you can do and join us for that. Let’s see how far we get. Great. We want to thank you for joining us for this episode of Beyond The Rut podcast. If you like what you heard, share this with your family.

Share it with your friends and your coworkers. We’re on itunes. We’re also on Stitcher, so you can go into the Stitcher app. You can also just go to our website, beyond the, and that’s where we keep all of our show notes. We keep our BIOS there.

Any news that we have coming up, we’ll post it on our blog portion of the site. We also have a link there where you can submit questions to the show. So if you want to be interviewed but we can’t set up a time, just call in using the app. It’s speak pipe. So you just go to beyond the, and the tab is in the upper left.

I’m guessing on that one. Or did I move it to the right? It’s at the top of the screen. Guys think it’s. In the center.

Yeah, it probably is. Where did I put it this week, anyway? So go to beyond the, and at the top you’ll see a button that says ask a question for the show. And now I’m going to go double check to make sure that’s what it really says. In any case, you can submit a question and we’ll tackle that as one of our topics in 2016.

So, yeah, see us on itunes, see us on Stitcher, rate us, review us, share us with your friends, and stay with us in 2016.

Hey, everyone. This is Trip Bodinheimer, host of the Shadows podcast. Each and every one of us has a shadow. We understand that our shadows are products of our upbringing and obstacles we face to tune in to hear our guests discuss every week how they turn their trials and tribulations into triumphs and success stories. They embrace their shadows, and that’s exactly what we do here at the Shadows.

We face them head on. We have a diverse group of guests, ranging from athletes, military members, actors, actresses, authors and entrepreneurs, and just regular, everyday people. Head over to for all new episodes. Episodes drop every Thursday. Maybe saying to yourself, I don’t have a story, but you’re wrong.

Everybody’s got a story to tell. If these Shadows podcast problem member of the William and Charlie Network.