If you’re feeling trapped in a cycle of repeated disappointment and hurt in your relationships, where your needs are constantly disregarded and your boundaries constantly violated, then you are not alone!
Despite your efforts to create safe and healthy connections, you may find yourself constantly sacrificing your own well-being and feeling overwhelmed by the lack of respect and understanding from others. This can leave you feeling drained, anxious, and questioning your own worth. But there is hope – recognizing the significance of boundaries can empower you to establish fulfilling and meaningful connections that prioritize your emotional and physical safety.
In this episode, you will be able to:
- Discover the key role healthy boundaries play in maintaining balanced relationships.
- Realize the significance of establishing boundaries at the onset of a relationship.
- Learn about innovative tools such as boundary cards to convey your personal boundaries effectively.
- Unearth a deeper understanding of self-awareness and the importance of respecting personal space and preferences.
- Recognize how boundaries act as pillars in shaping safe and robust relationships.
My special guest is Stephanie Jordan
Say hello to our boundary mentor, Stephanie Jordan. She’s a certified Marriage and Family Life Coach, giving her the edge in understanding the intricacies of relationships. Unafraid of the bumps life throws, Stephanie is an avid Harley Davidson rider, honing her toughness and adaptability. An author and speaker, she colors her life with the strokes of her experiences, including being a mother to nine. With Stephanie, boundaries aren’t a stop sign, but a chance to reevaluate and grow.
Table of Contents
Chapters
00:05:23 – Setting Boundaries in Relationships
00:08:34 – Boundaries and Personality Dynamics
00:13:17 – Setting Boundaries Around Time, Energy, and Money
00:14:56 – Accepting No from Others and Self-Esteem
00:21:15 – Autonomy and Respect
00:27:32 – The Importance of Self-Awareness in Boundaries
00:28:39 – Asking for Permission and Providing Feedback
00:31:39 – The Dangers of Personal Rejection and Shutting Down
00:35:23 – Grace and Boundaries in Relationships
Role of Healthy Boundaries in Relationships
Healthy boundaries play a crucial role in fostering safer and healthier connections. Recognizing personal space, emotional needs, and security, boundaries are instrumental in protecting an individual’s emotions, time, energy, and financial resources. From personal to professional relationships, maintaining such limits promotes self-respect and respect for others, leading to more fulfilling interactions.
Importance of Establishing Boundaries Early
It is essential to communicate boundaries at the beginning of a relationship. The established limits ensure protection against potentially unhealthy relationships and prevent emotional vulnerability. Making boundaries clear from the start can mitigate misunderstandings and disappointment, providing a solid foundation for a balanced relationship.
Innovative Tools for Effective Boundary Communication
Effective communication of boundaries is central to their success. Innovative tools, such as Stephanie Jordan’s downloadable cards, ease the process of boundary setting. These simple yet effective tools provide a platform for expressing personal limits without the fear of awkwardness or misunderstanding, which is vital for the development of meaningful and well-balanced relationships.
Stephanie Jordan, Author, Speaker, and Coach
With a Harley Davidson motorcycle roaring beneath her and a vast, open road ahead, Stephanie Jordan discovered the essence of literal and metaphorical boundaries. As a mother managing a bustling household of nine children and an author who has journeyed through marriage, divorce, and widowhood, Stephanie’s understanding of boundaries deepened through personal experience. She learned that boundaries provide safety and structure, much like the fences in real estate that mark territories.
As an Enneagram coach, she explored how personality dynamics interplay with boundary-setting and respecting others’ boundaries. Marked by trials, resilience, and self-realization, Stephanie’s journey inspired listeners to reflect on their boundaries, respect others, and redefine their relationships.
Resources
Subscribe on your favorite podcast player.
You can connect with Stephanie Jordan on her website at TheStephanieJordan.com.
Other episodes and articles you’ll enjoy:
Healthy Marriage 8-Episode Series Recap – BtR 239
The Magic Ratio for a Happy Healthy Relationship – BtR 015
How Embracing Vulnerability Can Power Up Your Fatherhood Journey
Connect with me:
Leave a voicemail at (469) 608-0355.
Send an email to [email protected].
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Transcript
00:00:00 – Jerry Dugan
Do you feel like you’re stuck in a rut in life or in a dead end job with no progression? I’m Jerry Dugan, and welcome to beyond the Rut, the podcast that offers you the motivation, inspiration, and practical tools to help you build a life worth living. My show is here to help you break free from your limitations and find a path to success. Join me as I share encouraging stories and actionable advice on how to get out of your rut in life and create a vision for your future. Life is just too short to live stuck in a rut. Here we go. Do you ever feel like you’re spreading yourself too thin in your life because of obligations in all the relationships you have, whether it’s your coworkers, your family members, your friends, anything? Well, my guest, Stephanie Jordan is an author, speaker, and a mom of nine. If you’ll believe that, and it’s true, so you got to believe it anyway, we’re going to be talking about biblical boundaries. So how do you say no to things that are going to just not be as important and say yes to the things that are most important to you? And then how do you set boundaries for yourself so that you’re doing the things that are healthier for you? So if that’s something that sounds like you need that or you need more of it, or you just want to just maybe we’ve piqued your curiosity, sit back, relax, grab a notebook and a pen, because here we go. Oh, and another thing, actually, I’m getting ahead of myself. Just check this out. Here we go. All right. Hey, Stephanie, how are you doing?
00:01:35 – Stephanie Jordan
I’m well. Thank you for having me today.
00:01:37 – Jerry Dugan
And then for the re edit because my voice cracked. Hey, Stephanie, how are you doing? I’m just kidding. I’m leaving all that in there. So we got connected, I think, through Podmatch, if I remember correctly. Now, I know that you are the boundaries mentor, and you talk about that, but before we dive in, because my brother I’m scared of motorcycles. Too many stories of people losing their heads over it. But my brother loves them. He rides dirt bikes, so that’s his thing. He goes out into the woods with a he calls it a toy hauler, which becomes his camper while he’s out there. And he rides dirt bikes all weekend with his buddies. So you’re interested in motorcycles, is that correct?
00:02:18 – Stephanie Jordan
Yes, a lot of motors.
00:02:20 – Jerry Dugan
All right. Now, what kind of bike do you ride?
00:02:22 – Stephanie Jordan
I have a HarleyDavidson Sportsster 48.
00:02:25 – Jerry Dugan
Nice. So yours has that patented sound that HarleyDavidson is known for.
00:02:31 – Stephanie Jordan
He is loud. You can hear me coming and you don’t want to be on your phone if I’m beside you in the car. You won’t be able to hear a thing.
00:02:40 – Jerry Dugan
A good budy of mine, Mike, he and I will do ruck marching in the mornings. We haven’t done it in a while. I don’t know why, but we’re talking about miles and miles with, like, heavy packs on our back. But anyway, he’s a big Harley guy, so I’ll have to tell him, hey, you got to listen to this episode because Stephanie’s on there. She writes harleys. She has her own Harley. We didn’t get the Harley on the show, but I’ll pipe in some audio track or something, send you a picture. There we go. That’d be cool. I’ll put that in the show notes. Cool. Deal. Awesome. And you might be at least the first person to say you own a Harley on the show, so there we go.
00:03:15 – Stephanie Jordan
There’s a beyond the I’m a big fan of riding. There’s nothing like capturing a moment in life like being on a yeah.
00:03:22 – Jerry Dugan
Yeah. There’s definitely a lot of flexibility, too. Like, you can get through tight spots. It’s just open air. Like, if it’s a nice day out, it’s like, great. If it’s raining, you’re like, yeah, I’m tough. Whereas I’m ducked in my car with the windshield wipers on, I’m like, oh, it’s so dry in here.
00:03:40 – Stephanie Jordan
The worst is when you get smacked with bugs. That’s something, like, I didn’t realize before I started writing. Just like when you get hit in the neck with a bug and its guts slide up around your neck and you got to keep going, and you’re like, oh.
00:03:58 – Jerry Dugan
Now, the helmet you have isn’t like the kind that encapsulates your whole face. It’s just like the skull cap, and then you wear goggles or sunglasses.
00:04:06 – Stephanie Jordan
No, I am a full face helmet girl. I’ve been down twice on my motorcycle, and both times I would have hit my face.
00:04:13 – Jerry Dugan
Oh, wow.
00:04:13 – Stephanie Jordan
No, I am all about a full face helmet.
00:04:17 – Jerry Dugan
Cool. There you go. And, you know, from practical experience, too, you’re like, yeah, no, that gravity is mean.
00:04:24 – Stephanie Jordan
Yeah. The first time I went down was on a pothole. I literally didn’t it locked up my front wheel, and I didn’t know that I wrecked till my head hit the ground. It was that fast. It was like I had fallen out of bed. But that was my first time to ever go down. And when I hit I hit my head, and it went like that, and I was like, oh, I love a full face helmet because it would have gotten my jawline oh, nice.
00:04:52 – Jerry Dugan
And you’re like, yes. No helmet forevermore. This is it. This is the way I ride.
00:04:56 – Stephanie Jordan
Yes.
00:04:57 – Jerry Dugan
And I would feel safer with a full helmet like that, as well. Just rocks and stuff. I don’t know. My windshield has been deep enough. I’m like, wow, that cracked a piece of glass. That’s tempered.
00:05:09 – Stephanie Jordan
That’s exactly right.
00:05:10 – Jerry Dugan
That’ll bust my face, too.
00:05:12 – Stephanie Jordan
Yeah, absolutely. That’s right. And that’ll all.
00:05:16 – Jerry Dugan
Get your man, man. Watch. This will be, like, the next most downloaded episode because we talked about motorcycles for a little while. That was the manliest Jerry ever got on his show. I’m like, I’m a manly guy. Come on. So again, you came on because you’re the boundaries mentor. You’ve got a book called Believing in Boundaries. And then I was doing my homework on you. What qualified Stephanie to talk about healthy boundaries and relationships? And it’s like, well, you’ve been married, divorced, I believe, remarried, unfortunately, widowed, and you put redeemed. But here’s the other thing. Blended family with nine kids. And I’m like, you don’t navigate those kinds of relationships without learning about boundaries.
00:06:01 – Stephanie Jordan
So true.
00:06:01 – Jerry Dugan
And you’re also a marriage and family coach certified with the Enneagram. And you lead people through understanding their personality dynamics and how that supports you, but then also how that could not just complement others, but also clash with others and then how to navigate that. So what are boundaries in a sense, and why are they so important for us?
00:06:23 – Stephanie Jordan
So I love to equate boundaries with a fence, like a fence around your backyard. Nobody puts a fence up around their backyard. And other people go, oh, my gosh, it’s so rude. I can’t believe they’re putting a fence around their backyard. It’s expected, right? People expect you to put a fence around your backyard to create privacy, to section it off as like, this is kind of my sacred space. But we don’t do that in relationships oftentimes. We don’t put fences around anything in relationship. And though boundaries are important in all relationships, boundaries are critical in unhealthy relationships. So when you’re thinking about boundaries being hard to set, typically it’s going to be with the people you need it the most that there’s unhealthy relationship happening. And so what you do is you’re just building a fence around your emotions, your time, your energy and your money. And that way they have to have permission.
00:07:26 – Jerry Dugan
Yeah. Some examples I could think of off top of my head would be things like, one thing I’m big on is I’ll never call my wife stupid. Doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter if I’m right in the argument, doesn’t matter if she’s missing a piece of key information. I will never look at her and say, man, you’re stupid. And if there’s ever been an inkling in 21 years, I’m starting to think that it’s like, oh, hold on, Mr. Arrogant. Check that. And it’s done me well. So that’s one never calling her a name is another in return. What I like to hopefully guard is she doesn’t call me stupid. She doesn’t call me names.
00:08:04 – Stephanie Jordan
Right.
00:08:04 – Jerry Dugan
And there have been times where that’s come up. 21 years, we’re going to argue those boundaries get crossed, and I’ve crossed boundaries of hers. Things like saying cuss words in the middle of an argument big no no for her. And I’m like, but that’s how everybody in my family has argued since I’ve been a teenager, because I wasn’t allowed to cuss when I was younger, apparently. Well, technically, I wasn’t allowed to cuss when I was older either. Until I stopped. I love a rebel, right? And so is it better to talk about these boundaries early in a relationship or can they come up anytime? When’s the best time to start communicating these boundaries to your partner or the people in your family?
00:08:46 – Stephanie Jordan
That’s a really good question. So really, boundaries come at any time and any point of relationship. Unfortunately, the longer you’re in that relationship like if you’re talking about 21 years of marriage and you haven’t set boundaries before and you’re unhealthy in your marriage, you’ll struggle more and you may need more support system to help you which is like getting in groups like Alanon or other healing sort of groups that help with self reflection. It could be any kind of support group. Those would be really important, help you along that journey the farther you are in a relationship. But when you just begin a relationship, like one of the things I have on my website are free little downloadable cards that you can mail to people that you just meet that are like, hey, just to let you know, these are a few little things about me. And that gives people an idea. Like you could say anything. Like, Saturdays are my family days, thank you for any invite you send me on Saturday. But I just need you to know I won’t join because it’s a family day or I go to bed. I don’t answer my phone after 09:00 p.m. At night, so if you ever call me or text me, I’m not ignoring you. That’s just my boundary, that’s my rule, that’s how I do things, right? So sometimes when you’re getting to know people, it’s good to share some of those things about yourself that they’re not going to know, but then they understand that, oh, that’s just who she is. If I call her at 930, she’s literally never going to answer her phone. That kind of stuff.
00:10:25 – Jerry Dugan
Cool. I like that. Being able to share a card, I’m thinking about when I got certified in disk through, I believe, Wiley, they provided these cards to the Facilitators that they give to their participants, where it’s like, this is my style and here are the things that motivate me, here are the things that demotivate me. It’s almost like these are my pet peeves. And you would post that outside your cubicle. So if somebody popped in before they got your attention, they could take a quick peek at that card and say, oh, this person’s an eye. So they value connection, collaboration, conversation, that personal touch to things. And I’m more of like a D on the disc. I’m not personally, but if I were, I’m more of like, here’s the task, go get her done. And so coming into somebody else’s space, seeing that they’re an eye, if I’m skilled enough in disc, I can start adjusting my style and say, hey, how’s it going? And whatever discomfort I’ve got on the inside kind of suck that up a little bit because I’m engaging this person in the way they prefer to be engaged in.
00:11:26 – Stephanie Jordan
What’s, your boundaries? Yeah, those are boundaries. Right? So that is such an important thing. It’s like you’re saying you just approached their back fence, and you’re saying, I’d like permission to come into your back fence. And so to know what that is, they need connection or they need engagement, they need a little bit of entertainment, whatever that linking point is. That gate, when you walk through that gate and into their back space, if you’re safe, then they’ll keep you there. If you’re not safe, then they’re going to be like, you need to get out of my back fence. And that looks like more like, hey, jerk, I don’t like you and I’m not going to work with you, instead of just get out of my back fence.
00:12:09 – Jerry Dugan
Yes. And it sounds like to interact with others, to respect their boundaries, but also to uphold my own boundaries, I got to have a sense of what are my boundaries in the first place? And chances are, and I think you said it just a moment ago, that a lot of us don’t know what our boundaries are, and that’s where we usually run into those problems. What are some of the first steps I could go through to identify what my boundaries are?
00:12:35 – Stephanie Jordan
I’m so glad you asked that because I think the very beginning of setting boundaries is learning to be able to say no and accept no. So our culture today is so codependent and so sick. We do not respect the autonomy of others at all. We expect everybody to think like us, be like us, act like us, and if we don’t, we want to get rid of them. And that is so unhealthy and it’s really, really sick thinking. So another issue with today’s culture that we tend to have is that we don’t know how to be told no. We don’t like to be told no. Right? Like, I grew up in the Burger King your way right away culture, right? Like, it’s my way right now. I want it to be exactly how I want it to be, but that’s not real, and it’s not healthy either. And so when we start to say no, and we recognize that, we’re not personally rejecting whoever, we’re telling no. So, for example, you can’t afford to go out to dinner with your friend on Friday night. You had bills to pay, you had things to do. So they ask you to go out and you’re like, no, I can’t go. I can’t afford to. Well, that’s not personal rejection. You’re not rejecting them because you’re saying, no, I can’t go. You’re setting boundaries around your time, your energy, and your money, which are the three key areas that you have to ask about, do I have the time? Do I have the energy? And do I have the money? To do this. So you’re not personally rejecting them because you say no, but often instead of them saying, dude, I totally understand that you can’t afford it this week. One, I’ll either pay for you or two, we’ll get you next, right? They’re like, oh, man, why do you have to be like that? Right? And so they’d make it personal so then you feel like you just rejected them, but it had nothing to do with rejection. So once you can break through feeling like you’ve rejected somebody or allowing them to project that on you and that you know that your no doesn’t mean that you’ve personally rejected somebody, then when someone else tells you no, you can start to accept, oh, they’re not rejecting me. They’re just telling me they don’t have the time, energy, or money to do something. And so if we could do that easier, we would have less burnout, we would have less people that we are frustrated with because they’re just not listening to us. But it really stems from us knowing that our no is not personal rejection. So once you can say no, you can accept no.
00:15:22 – Jerry Dugan
And I’m thinking about, like, what amount of self esteem do we need to have internally to be able to accept somebody’s no as that’s just simply it. It’s a no. For whatever reason that person has, the answer is no. Doesn’t mean I’m a horrible person, doesn’t mean I don’t have any friends, doesn’t mean people don’t want to hang out with me, doesn’t mean that I need to jump off a bridge or a cliff. It’s just no. And I think that’s something important for us to keep in mind. If we’re feeling offended because somebody said no, they cannot go with us, or no, they have got other plans. No, that’s not the thing they feel called or led to do. If we’re feeling that angst on the inside, I think that’s something we as individuals need to take a look at. Why is that going on? Because I love that you brought that up. Being able to respect somebody else’s no is huge.
00:16:11 – Stephanie Jordan
Yeah, it’s funny that you said that, because talking about pod match so I went through like two weeks. I don’t remember when I was maybe back in the fall, and I got a lot of notes and I’m like, have you read my profile? I am interesting my first five months.
00:16:29 – Jerry Dugan
On the platform too.
00:16:30 – Stephanie Jordan
Yeah, I will be a good guest for you. How can you tell me no? Because that’s like a rude message. Like, this person has chosen not know. Like you basically and it’s like it really messed with was and it wasn’t just coming from that. There were some other areas I was getting some personal rejection from, or it felt that way, and so I had to navigate through some of that. Like, okay, Stephanie, they may not have the time. The energy or money is not a part of it, but they may not have the time to get you in right now, or they may not feel like your message fits what they’re talking about. That doesn’t mean that that matters because your message does fit other people. And so you kind of have to have a broader perspective of, I think, the world in general, that you’re not an island amongst yourself, nor are you stuck on as people. The world is vast and with the internet today, you have an option to kind of spread yourself out to other people. Like if you’re a church, if you’re in a church and you feel just extremely unloved, uncared for, unwanted, you need to lead. That’s not the purpose of the church. There’s no reason for you to be like, well, God hasn’t told me I could leave this. Well, yeah, but you’re not in community, which is the purpose of the church. It doesn’t matter which part of the body you’re going to. God’s not going to hold you down into a space. Now, there may be lessons for you to learn and those lessons are important. But typically it’s like you need to find somewhere that fits you. That doesn’t mean that they’re personally rejecting you. It’s just not a fit for you. And that can be hard. Like, I kind of live in a community that we don’t match. We don’t fit this community well. And so I’ve been out here for 13 years and I still don’t love it. But I have found my way. Like, I don’t work out here. I work in a different area of town that does fit me. And I have friends that live in other areas of town that do fit me. And so you just have to be open to this concept to not make your world so small that you need everything in your world to agree with you. And like you you can branch out if you need to because rejection really does wear on your heart after time. But you have to make sure, is it rejection or is it a boundary?
00:19:12 – Jerry Dugan
Yeah, I love that. It just keeps going back to that self esteem, though. Like knowing who you are, know what your boundaries are, knowing what you stand for, and then respect for other people as individuals, autonomous individuals. And we see it a lot that I know some people complain about cancel culture. It’s like, believe in my progressive idea or else I cancel you. And then the flip side, believe in my Christian value. In fact, I’m going to try to pass a law on it.
00:19:41 – Stephanie Jordan
That’s right.
00:19:42 – Jerry Dugan
What does that do to the autonomy of everybody else around you? And we try to justify it, but the reality is if we’re truly trusting the autonomy of others, then being able to share our boundaries and respect people’s boundaries. The analogy of the fence going to that. I’ll shift gears real quick back to the analogy of the fence. I worked for a few years as a real estate agent. My wife doesn’t listen to the show so it’s cool. I’m not allowed to talk about real estate, at least not my career as a real estate agent too traumatic for us as a family. But anytime there was ever an actual dispute of the fence was never about whether or not there was a fence present. It was whether or not that fence was encroaching on one person’s boundary or one person’s property more than what it was supposed to. And then that’s where discussions around who wants to pay for a survey now those come up and it’s like if you want the data, we can pay for a survey. They cost like this many hundred dollars. Do you want to split the cost? Do you want somebody else to pay for it? We are okay with a survey but at the same time we’re also not going to move the fence because the fence itself doesn’t demarcate. I’m taking more property from you. Now I might be robbing you of enjoying three inches of your property, but it’s also providing us with security. So what works here? Do you want us to move the fence? Do you want to help us? The fences are already here. Do we want to move the fence? Do you want to help pay for it? What’s the give and take? But the only time people seem to be upset about a fence is when it encroaches into somebody else’s space.
00:21:13 – Stephanie Jordan
But that’s the boundary.
00:21:15 – Jerry Dugan
Yes, exactly. And some folks just hard and fast non negotiable say do not do this. And I know we’re talking ambiguity here because there are some things that are hard and fast rules that we don’t let people cross into. I’m not going to let people try to intimidate me. I’m not going to let people think they can exert their perspective of what my value is. Those are hard and fast rules and I hope and expect everybody else has that same hard and fast rule and I should appreciate that and respect that. And you’re shaking your head no. And a lot of people don’t have for themselves don’t know that that’s a thing that’s correct. And then they become like doormats for other people or other people think they’ve got the entitlement to go make a doormat out of somebody. And that always I don’t think I’ve got a question there. That was my commentary based on what we’ve talked about so far.
00:22:09 – Stephanie Jordan
Well I’ll go along with that. That’s exactly the truth. And that is part of the problem. Talking about a little bit with the enneagram. I’m a di in disc by the way. I was like almost 50 50 di. But on the enneagram there’s nine personality types, right? So the nine as a peacemaker and the peacemaker personality will hide itself within other to try and keep the peace. Right? So an enneagram nine type would really struggle. Like, I’m an eight. I’m a very dominant part that D, right? So if you think of a di and disc, that would be like what I am as an eight wing, seven and Enneagram. Okay, so that D is that very dominant fight. And nine would be similar to, like, the S, the sensitive largental type, right?
00:23:04 – Jerry Dugan
Yeah. I’m an Si, by the way, on the disc.
00:23:08 – Stephanie Jordan
An Si. Okay.
00:23:09 – Jerry Dugan
So I’m like, I know that she’s.
00:23:10 – Stephanie Jordan
Not going to rarest.
00:23:12 – Jerry Dugan
I don’t know.
00:23:13 – Stephanie Jordan
Is that one of the rarest combinations?
00:23:15 – Jerry Dugan
I have to look that up.
00:23:16 – Stephanie Jordan
It’s like, yeah, look that up. I’d like to know.
00:23:19 – Jerry Dugan
Yeah, because in my field, almost everybody is an Is or an Si. And so to me, it’s normal. And then there’s a lot of di’s and IDs. It’s the C group that is rare for me to come across because you tend to see those conscientiousness, detail oriented folks in engineering surgery, some parts of law, depending on corporate law, those kinds of guys, lots of detail chemists.
00:23:45 – Stephanie Jordan
And I’m not I am married to.
00:23:47 – Jerry Dugan
A C. Oh, man. That’s my arch nemesis, by the way.
00:23:53 – Stephanie Jordan
When we did the dis thing. So is so us, because one of the things it said was, D’s will shoot, then ask questions. And C’s are aim, aim, aim, aim, aim, aim, aim, aim.
00:24:07 – Jerry Dugan
You almost got to nudge them.
00:24:10 – Stephanie Jordan
Oh, my gosh, that is so us. You can imagine. Like, it drives me nuts because he thinks that he can figure out every detail of every situation, and I’m like, we’re just going to figure it out as we go, right?
00:24:26 – Jerry Dugan
Yeah. Finding that middle ground, like, okay, let’s dive. Like, today, what iPhone 14 is out as of the recording here, it’s probably 15 by next week. Who knows how many people still use the original iPhone from, like, 2007? Nobody. Nobody. Yeah. And so how do they get these software engineers and hardware engineers to be okay with launching the original iPhone? It’s like, we’ll let you come back to the table and come up with a new product in a year, and in fact, we’d love you to, because then that increases our sales anyway, so let’s just keep improving iteratively. And I think that’s how you get away with appeasing somebody who’s a C if you’re a D or any other quadrant, because you’re just like, we got to get something out there to help people. But those, again, come to boundaries because for somebody who’s a C, there’s never enough information. And for anybody else, how do we provide them with all that information so they can make a choice as best as possible? Because their fear is to be wrong. And somebody who’s a D, the fear is often to not achieve or not get something done or be seen as a doormat. And so it’s like, well, how do we help them get things done, but not inadvertently shoot themselves in the foot? And so how do we create that environment where they can take risks and adjust as easily as possible? I love that from the dis perspective, but you were talking from Enneagram. Sorry. So I’ll back off.
00:25:45 – Stephanie Jordan
No, C’s would be similar to five. Sixes ones on the Enneagram DS would be eight. Three sevens would be the I. And two two and seven would probably be I. And then the S would be like the nine and the fours. So if you want to kind of put those into your understanding, those would probably be the numbers that correlate with the disc. If you have a nine, they’re going to have very poor boundary, but they have the eight wing, which is a very strong wing, the challenging protector. The nine is the peacemaker. The eight is the challenging protector. And on the other side of the nine is the moral perfectionist. So they have these very strong wings to pull from that. If they can find the balance in themselves, they will use those strong wings to help set their boundaries. But it’s not going to be natural. It’s going to be something that they definitely have to seek out. And like, for me, being a strong personality, it’s hard for me to necessarily recognize other people’s boundaries because I’m willing as a D to just steam right over those suckers to make things happen. Right. And so I have to be more aware of I’m going to give you a perfect example. A few months ago, I saw my coworker at the salon filling up her shampoo bottle or her conditioner bottle and she had a funnel in there and I was like, Sister, I’ve been doing hair forever. I don’t ever use funnels to put conditioner in a bottle because that takes forever. It’s a ridiculous step. So I go over there and I’m like, let me help you. I freaking ended up dropping the tube off of her shampoo pump into her shampoo where I couldn’t get it out. I made a mess with the conditioner and I came back to her and I was like, I should have stayed out of that. And I am so sorry because I just seem right. And she’s so sweet, right? She’s like, oh, it’s fine. I think she’s a nine personality. And I was like, no, I should have stayed out of that. And I apologize for just crossing right over and then I made a mess of it. And so it’s that kind of thing, just being more self aware of. Did you make a mess of something that somebody was doing just fine? They’re just doing it slower than you or maybe not as efficient or whatever, but just let them do it and stay out of it. Being self aware when you’re crossing other people’s boundaries is very important as well.
00:28:32 – Jerry Dugan
Yeah, even better if you could be that self aware person before you cross the boundary, which goes back to the thing you said way. Back at the beginning of our conversation about asking for permission as you’re about to go do a thing with somebody, to have a conversation, to provide feedback, to ask about somebody’s story, all these things. You’re an open book. My eye kicks in. I tend to be an open book on the podcast. People freak out when they see me in a meeting. And my s, the steadiness comes out, and I go back to what’s best for the group, and I’m listening to everybody, and I remember not this past job I had, but the one before it. My boss had forgotten that I was a stronger s. She’s the one who got me certified, so she knows I knew discs. She’s like, Jerry, are you okay? You didn’t talk that whole meeting. We were in there for, like, an hour. I was like, oh, yeah, I’m fine. I learned so much in there. She’s like, really? You didn’t say a word. I thought something was going on at home. Or maybe you don’t like working with us. All these things are going through my head. She’s a strong s as well. And I’m like, Well, I wanted to listen to everybody else’s perspective, and I didn’t have anything to add that was, like, ground shattering. And nobody’s rights or values were being trampled on, so I felt no need to stand up and say anything. And I was just waiting for the plane to land. And whatever solution came out of this group, I’m all for it, because everything kind of aligned with what I think we need to do. And I’m not on this team to make a name for myself. I’m on this team because I love the work. I love the team, and it supports my family. It pays the bills. So all those are still there. And she’s like, oh, yeah, you are an S on the desk. So just keep in mind you’re always welcome to speak up. But I knew about myself that I will speak up if some hardcore values of mine are being trampled on. Like respect for others, respect for myself not being heard, like when I am actually speaking and somebody cuts me off and says, yeah, right, and then counters what I’m saying without really listening to the information I’m providing or offering, then that might upset me, because if you’re doing it to me, you’re doing it to others. And it’s that, again, what’s best for the group. Or if I see people are kind of picking on somebody’s idea, I may come in and help champion that person, like, hey, I think I see where they’re coming from. I can see this, this, and this. And we talked about our objective was A, B, and C, but we’re adhering to something that we’ve already said doesn’t work. And then this person came up with it, and I think we should take a look at that. And if they try to shoot that down, it’s like, well, and I’ve done this before, it’s like, it’s a bad idea. Why is it a bad idea? You’re just having a knee jerk reaction here, and you’re shooting somebody’s idea down. And I hope it’s not because it came from that person.
00:31:13 – Stephanie Jordan
Right.
00:31:15 – Jerry Dugan
But I know where those boundaries are for me, and I love that we’re talking about this, because there are probably folks struggling in their relationships either at home or at work, because they’re inadvertently stepping on landmines. They’re crossing that boundary into somebody else’s nation and stepping on that landmine and landmine and not realizing what they’re doing. And I know folks like this and their knee jerk reaction is, well, fine, I just won’t engage with anybody. And then they close off.
00:31:42 – Stephanie Jordan
Right? I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt.
00:31:45 – Jerry Dugan
No, go ahead.
00:31:47 – Stephanie Jordan
That’s the lack of acknowledging autonomy, right? Like, oh, well, I’m just going to shut down. Instead of going, okay. They’re their own person, I’m my own person. Now we have to find a place that we can operate together. Well, instead of doing that, shut down, like, I’m just not going to be a part of it anymore. You can’t do that just because you’ve crossed a boundary and someone got mad at you. Or you tend to push boundaries on the regular, which there are those people that there’s a certain need for that, right? There’s a certain need to push certain things, but you got to know when to pull back. And that it’s not personal rejection. And that is what happens when somebody sits in personal rejection. I’m just not going to be a part of anything. They made it personal instead of going, oh, wait, I just crossed this completely autonomous person’s line, and I need to pull back, but not shut down. Right. I call it the space of grace. This is one person, this is the other person. This is your space of grace in the middle. Right. And if you keep that space of grace, you’ve got a little get, but if you don’t, this is what you end up with. Right?
00:33:06 – Jerry Dugan
Yeah.
00:33:06 – Stephanie Jordan
And so we want that space of grace between all of our relationships. That gives a little cushion to preference, right?
00:33:15 – Jerry Dugan
Oh, yeah. I’m glad you brought that up, because my wife actually exercised that on me over the last 21 years, but more specifically in the first ten, because our views of parenting were way different. She was good at it, and clearly I was not, and I’m not joking. I was bringing in a lot of habits from my mom, which was like this ironclad tiger mom type of approach to parenting. And my wife’s like, who’s motivated by that? Did that ever motivate you when you were a kid? And I’m like, no, it did not. I hated her for it. She’s like, So why do you think that’s going to work with the next generation? And I was like, oh, wow. And for her to take the time to talk that through, because the first few times we had these kinds of discussions, I was that guy, like, well, you think you got it better, then you handle the parenting, and I’ll handle the providing stupid man stuff here. She’s like, no, that’s not how a marriage and a mutual relationship works. I’m like, well, blah, blah, blah. It didn’t matter what I said. I was hurt. And I was like, Why is it my way was wrong? And she exercised that grace to say, okay, he’s clearly holding on to some things here. I’ll let him kind of sort through that. But here are some ground rules. She had boundaries on parenting. Like, this is my vision for raising my kids, and here are some absolutes I will not do. I agree with those. I don’t see why I’m arguing with you, because those are sound boundaries. She didn’t use the word boundaries at the time. Just sort of like, here are some hard, fast rules. And I was like, that makes sense. I can agree with that. And this is my motivation, why I’m so uptight about wanting our kids to do well in school, for example. I want them to always strive to be their best. Like, great. You don’t achieve that by yelling at them. Think about your football coaches. Think about your baseball coaches, the good ones compared to the bad ones. Think about your dad’s parenting style to your mom’s. Which of those motivated you to go do your best? I was like, well, son of a gun, look at that. She had to take the time to give me that grace, share her boundaries, let me share my intentions. And then over the course of by the time the kids were 18 and done, still getting better at it over and over, but it took time. So the grace piece is huge. Now, folks, I know they can buy your book. It’s on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, a bunch of other places. Believing in boundaries. Guys, you got to get a copy of it. I know you’ve got an online course as well on your website, Thestephanyjordan.com, and you are the boundaries mentor. So do you coach, folks, I know you’re a certified coach for marriage and family using the Enneagram. So do you take on individual clients? Do you go into churches and work with groups? How do people get more help from you to establish boundaries, communicate boundaries, respect boundary and everything else?
00:35:59 – Stephanie Jordan
So the online course is like your first step, and once you get the course, you will go into a Facebook Live group. But I put constant content out as well on Instagram and Facebook and all of that sort of stuff. So I constantly have content generating. I don’t have any specific webinars yet. I plan on doing that this year. I’m kind of picking my brain a little bit about because boundaries can be such a vast topic sometimes I think it can be hard. Like how do you set that in 1 hour, right? And people are always kind of left with more questions and so it’s really a journey. So really the online course is the best way to go because I take you on a full journey, like through the healthy relationship roadmap to three keys to Do Not Cross and then be safe. And every one of those modules just has a ton of information on healing, healing yourself, forgiveness, learning what boundaries are, how to set them, how to hold them, and all of that sort of stuff. So that really is the best way to start. Then I’ll see you on Facebook for the other goodies. And I’ll do live so we can actually talk about situations and discuss things.
00:37:29 – Jerry Dugan
And it sounds like from a business perspective, we kind of talked through a boundary just now. I mean, talking boundaries is a long process. We’ve got a whole lifetime of habits we’ve developed. We’ve got to build some new habits, some new skills, and I don’t think a 1 hour webinar is going to pull that off either. I don’t think this 35 to 40 minutes conversation is going to give everybody all the answers they need around boundaries either. So you got to reach out to Stephanie.
00:37:52 – Stephanie Jordan
Lots of questions.
00:37:53 – Jerry Dugan
Exactly. So I think the format you got is great. My personal opinion. So there you have it, guys. I’m going to put the links to Stephanie’s website, the course, her book, all into the show notes. So keep listening as I do that. Wrap up after we get our final word of wisdom from Stephanie. So what final words of wisdom would you like to leave us before we go?
00:38:14 – Stephanie Jordan
I think that people need to do the hard work to learn boundaries, what they are and how to set them. Because you will take every relationship in your life and be able to enrich that relationship. Healthy relationships will just get better and give you more depth. Unhealthy relationships will either be forced to change into healthy relationships or you’ll weed them out of your life. So just do the hard work to learn boundaries, set them, hold them and believe that because we are made in the image of God, god first established boundaries in creation and in relationships. And as image bearers, if we will do the same thing, then we have a better chance of having good, healthy, fulfilling relationships in our lives.
00:39:08 – Jerry Dugan
Awesome. Stephanie, thanks for being on here and for being our first openly Harley riding guest on the show.
00:39:15 – Stephanie Jordan
I love it.
00:39:17 – Jerry Dugan
Now, I hope one, that you found this conversation fun, lighthearted, but also valuable in terms of setting boundaries for yourself and all the people around you. If you want more information, like where do you find her book? I want to book her to speak at my organization. Check out the show [email protected]. Three, eight, four. Now, if you want to pay this show back, the best thing you could do is to pay it forward. So the other thing I’m going to ask of you is to hit the Share button. However, you’re listening to this episode right now and share this with a friend, a family member, a coworker, or that neighbor across the street. Now, I’m glad you joined me for this episode of beyond the Rut. I look forward to joining you again on the next one, but until then, go live life beyond the Rut. Take care.
