00:00:00 - Jerry Dugan
Are you a leader looking to create a life worth living in your faith, family and career? Then you're in the right place. Welcome to beyond the Rut, the podcast that shares encouraging stories and practical tools so that you can define success on your terms and leave an impact and a legacy that you would be proud of. Now, I'm your host, Jerry Dugan, and in this episode, we're going to be joined by Andre Paradiss. Now, Andre was a professional dancer who shared the stages with folks like Julio Iglesias, Paula Abdul and more, and he hung that up, got into business, and eventually met the woman of his dreams. And now today, he is helping singles and married couples create healthy relationships for the long term. So we're going to be talking about the three C's of healthy relationships and other practical advice to help you thrive in your marriage. So sit back, relax, grab a notebook and a pen because here we go. All right, Andre, how are you doing on this fine day?
00:01:05 - Andre Paradis
Very well, Jerry. Thank you. I'm in Los Angeles, and it's sun and it's beautiful, like in a movie.
00:01:11 - Jerry Dugan
Nice. Now, depending on how my dad is driving at the time we're talking, he might oh, no, he's stopping in San Diego. Never mind. So he's nowhere near La. Right now? No, he's doing this big loop. He lives in Santa Clara, California, so he did this loop to, like, Washington, Montana, Oklahoma, visited us in Texas, so he's visiting family. He just got cleared by the doctor to travel again, and so now he's visiting my Aunt Patty down in San Diego, and then he'll drive on up. So he'll pass la.
00:01:38 - Andre Paradis
In a few days.
00:01:38 - Jerry Dugan
I'll wait, Jerry's dad, maybe about now.
00:01:44 - Andre Paradis
Awesome.
00:01:45 - Jerry Dugan
Now, I wanted to get you on the show because you're passionate about coaching for healthy relationships, looking at how today's culture really kind of sets us up for failure, for long term marriages and family and that kind of thing. And then the thing that really caught my attention because my daughter has been involved with dance since she was six years old, until she was 18, and she just hung it up. She just turned 20 recently, so this is a relatively recent thing. And I was like, man, this is cool. We got to get this guy on here. So I'm glad we were able to connect and get on as soon as we could. Now, your career as a dancer, you performed for folks like Michael Jordan for Prince Jackson.
00:02:25 - Andre Paradis
I'll go Jackson.
00:02:26 - Jerry Dugan
Did I say Jordan Jackson? The other guy, the one who could sing and dance. That one, yes.
00:02:30 - Andre Paradis
The other Michael. The other Michael.
00:02:35 - Jerry Dugan
You know what? I was interviewing a guy who has back skipball background. I'm like, how did I get Jordan? But that's not important. So dance. So you had this career in dance, and you still dance, but what was it like performing with these guys? What was life like? Just to give us an idea.
00:02:51 - Andre Paradis
It was obviously a gradual getting to. I mean, I'm French Canadian. I was born in Quebec City in a snowbank, for God's sake. Oh, wow. But I discovered I was 15, that I had a talent for dancing in a ballroom class. It was a surprise to me where everything the teacher could remember, like the teacher on my right with the girl in my arms, and everything he did, I could just instantly copy. It was really bizarre because it's so visceral. I knew this already. He was just reminding me. Bizarre. I mean, bizarre, yeah, but I came from a kind of messed up background. My family system was quite horrible, and I was a sad person. I was a sad kid. I didn't think I was going to go far with the belief that I didn't belong. The belief is I don't belong here. I just don't belong here. I'm not supposed to be here with these people. So kind of weird and disconnected and awkward. Anyway, so to discover this talent when I'm an anomaly here, it's not supposed to be here. That was interesting, but it lifted my spirit. It made me smile. It made me like, okay, well, this is fun. There's a little joy in my spirit, in my heart. And so it became all I wanted to do at the resistance of my family. How do you make a living at this? We're all professional. My brothers are lawyers, my sister's CPA, my other brother CPA. I want to dance well, I want to dance because my heart needed to dance like my spirit. So I just went, all I do is that's all I wanted to do. And eventually, because I had disability, innate surprise, whatever kind of dancing I did stuck. I could do it all rapidly. And this is obviously the strength, the training, the alignment, all this stuff. That took years, but somehow everybody could see something. So I got scholarship after scholarship. I never paid for my training. It was just kind of magical, and I just sort of let it go because I was going to go back to school eventually because can't make a living and this stuff, but it makes me want to live. So I'm going to stick to this for a while. Then I thought, let's give it a shot and see where it takes me. And in a couple of years it doesn't work out, at least I ride. Like, I've just went with my heart. Well, guess what? All the way to Michael Jackson. Prince Paul Abdul. Julie IG glazes and, like, traveled the planet literally dancing, choreographing, performing, also teaching, because it goes through the territory, and it was literally just say 1ft in front of the other with that's all I wanted to do because it lifted my spirit.
00:05:27 - Jerry Dugan
Now, do you still dance to this?
00:05:33 - Andre Paradis
Went, you know, so I started ballroom. Then I went, know they're called contemporary, but commercial jazz dancing, we called it. This is everything you see on television, music videos or whatever, like movies with that. I'm in Los Angeles. So salsa is a version of ballroom that know, sort of the Latin in ballroom is called the mambo on the street is called the salsa. The salsa in itself is just a huge, amazing thing that actually just pulls on my heart. So I taught salsa. I did salsa every Sunday. My wife and I are taking a private salsa class still because I know how to do it and I have my tricks. However, I can't teach her the girl part with the arms and all this stuff. So I hire somebody. So you still salsa today. Nice. It's the core of my being. That's how I stay healthy, spirited and connected to my body.
00:06:27 - Jerry Dugan
Yeah. My daughter's ballet school, the owner of the ballet, I believe she was in her eighty s. And to see her leap up on top of chairs while talking to the people on stage, I'm like how I'm in my forty s and I can't do that without falling on my face. And she just nimbly, jumped up there and said, all right, I need you to do this.
00:06:47 - Andre Paradis
This.
00:06:48 - Jerry Dugan
And her voice just projected. I'm like, so folks, if you want a I mean, Dancing with the Stars, they showed it like there are guys that get on there a little chunky, and they are thin and fit by the time they finish the season.
00:06:59 - Andre Paradis
Football players can't keep up with dancers.
00:07:01 - Jerry Dugan
Yeah.
00:07:02 - Andre Paradis
Exactly what it takes to be a football player, which is insane. The dancers are three times the shape.
00:07:09 - Jerry Dugan
Yes.
00:07:09 - Andre Paradis
From the conditioning, from the strength, from the stretching, from the reflexes, from the balance. But it's interesting, and I get it. We never consider myself a dancer. I was an athlete. Lean, hard, flexible, tight, just comes with it. Because we talk about training like three, 4 hours a day, and sometimes you get on a gig or a show, you're dancing eight hour days. Yeah. You never stop moving, which is fantastic. It's built in cardio.
00:07:41 - Jerry Dugan
Yeah. Sometimes learn the routine right then and there. So you got to memorize, you got the mental piece and you got the.
00:07:45 - Andre Paradis
Physical piece to go. That's a brain training. I mean, if you go on an audition and they throw whatever they're throwing at you, you have to grab it, own it, and deliver it within minutes back at them and make it your own and completely fluid. And that's the big part of the training, is a mental training of that ability for your brain to grab, decode, integrate physically right through your body and just give it back. It's amazing. And that's a huge part of the training. And this is the reason why you have to keep training. Because part of the time when I went to Thailand for four months on a gig, I was choreographing and producing a show for their top female pop star, like our Janet Jackson here. That was the lady. I was the girl I was building a show for this whole time that I'm not mean. And the first thing that slips, I think musicians understand this as well. If you stop rehearsing, your timing comes off. Timing like that little edge, that super edge. So you never stop training. You never stop training. So the brain stuff is amazing, but the physicality as well, that's the level of professionals.
00:08:51 - Jerry Dugan
Most folks practice it until they get it right. Professional will practice, so they never get it wrong. And that's a huge difference right there.
00:08:59 - Andre Paradis
Never stop.
00:08:59 - Jerry Dugan
I know you and your wife, your wife also dances. From what I understand, she's a ballerina, right?
00:09:04 - Andre Paradis
Yes.
00:09:06 - Jerry Dugan
Now, you've been married over 30 years, which means you probably got together early 90s, give or take a few years. Now, I'm coming off of five days of watching Christmas rom coms with my dad for five days straight. So I stopped counting after 15. I think we watched like, 24 of them. He has effectively messed up our TV's algorithm for the next two years. Yeah, it's fine. It's his fault, not yours. But with that, my dad's a sucker for what they call meet cute stories. I am too. My wife and I love to hear how couples met. So I'm curious, did you both meet while you were both dancing professionally? Like, how did you two meet?
00:09:46 - Andre Paradis
She walked into my class. Wow, that's simple. Now, I was on the road. My first big professional job was Chippendales. So I was on the road to Chippendales. And again, I was just talking about the lack of training, of rhythm, fitness. Right. So I wasn't a stripper. I was a dancer in the show, but I had to look like a stripper. So they hired dancers to be the stage energy and obviously the talent, because the guys are big and strong, but they can't do anything. So they hire four professional dancers for the stage production to be getting exciting and all that stuff. But we have to look like strippers, right? So look at me. Physically, you have to look like one of the guys. But we are the talent. So that was my professional job. And it was fun. It was crazy. It was wild. Sex, drugs, rock and roll, women. I could tell you stories to make your hair this girly. It was a fantastic I was a young 25, 26 year old at the time, and I realized how traditional I was in the inside. I didn't know till then, honestly. And that after a year. Plus, I'm like, this is twisting my brain, it's twisting my mind, it's twisting my life. I compare myself to guys that have been that were in the show. Like, one guy was in the show for five years, and he was beyond prepared from the lifestyle. And I remember thinking, if I continue this job, which is fun, I'm going to be like him. And I realized I wanted a traditional life, and I wanted a wife and kids and all that stuff. But till then, it was an idea anyway, so I quit, which the guys are like, Are you stupid? Everybody wants to be us. I'm like, you could be you. I'm going to go be me. Yeah. And go back to work. This is when it was the Los Angeles. So I'm in class. I got myself positioned in Debbie Metal Studio, which is famous. So I'm teaching, like, ten classes a week at Debbie Metals, and my radar was up. My radar was, I was looking for the girl. I'd done all the madness. I was looking for the girl, the radar. And she walked in, and within two and a half minutes, my knees kind of buckled and my ears got hot like a five year old. And this is my woman.
00:11:55 - Jerry Dugan
Wow.
00:11:57 - Andre Paradis
That was it.
00:12:00 - Jerry Dugan
I guess I'm comparing to my own story here. Now, did you ask her out right then and there? How long did it take for you to actually ask her out on a date?
00:12:07 - Andre Paradis
So, kind of a funny story. I was dating another girl who I thought might be potential, and I was six months into that relationship and kind of found out that she really ultimately was a man hater.
00:12:20 - Jerry Dugan
Oh, wow.
00:12:21 - Andre Paradis
She was lovely in a lot of ways, but she had such issues in her past with men that she never met me. I was one of those things with a penis that you can't trust and that you would get. So she never met me. So I'm in the middle of that understanding. I'm in hell. I need to get out. Right. I picked the wrong girl. And then my wife walked in. So that was like, there it is.
00:12:44 - Jerry Dugan
Wow.
00:12:45 - Andre Paradis
Used a little bit of a stake, so it took me three months to shake off the other woman. Excuse me. It was complicated until I could actually sort of focus on my wife, who was coming to class three times a week.
00:12:56 - Jerry Dugan
Nice.
00:12:57 - Andre Paradis
And so that was kind of a funny story.
00:13:00 - Jerry Dugan
No, it took me three months to get the courage to ask my wife out, to which she replied, what took you so long? So apparently she was dropping hints for three months, and I was missing them. It was like we were both in the army, and my assignment when I got back from Kosovo was to teach her everything I knew and learned in Kosovo. Well, I ran out of stuff in about four days, and I was just pulling stuff off shelves, grabbing manuals and kind of making stuff, and I did that for three months, like, just teaching her everything I knew. And so when I asked her, like, what? And she's like, do you really think I wanted to learn about how to set up a field antenna? Do you really think I set up a field antenna when I was in Kosovo? She's like, no, I just figured you were, like, pulling up manuals at that point. That was 22 years ago. Oh, man, I love those stories. And so you had already chosen to leave that road life and kind of the fame and the lights and the glam to kind of slow down a bit. And you're already recognizing you were in a relationship that wasn't really going anywhere because really, your partner at the time had some major barriers that were going to prevent you from having that connection. And then Mrs. Paradis walks in, and it's love at first sight. And you've done a lot of work because you don't get to 30 plus years in marriage without doing the work. And I know you're career wise, business wise, you had a lot of hats you wore in the time. I guess I got two different ways I want to go here, but I think that the best way to start bringing this together is some of the stuff that I know you talk about on other shows is how and you hinted at this a moment ago when you realized you were a traditional male or traditional man. And that was that clash at what is kind of the modern woman or the modern climate, in a sense. So in what ways have you and your wife found today's culture at odds and trying to challenge what you've built together and what you see other people?
00:14:57 - Andre Paradis
It's a big question, right?
00:14:59 - Jerry Dugan
That's me letting you take the lead for a little bit.
00:15:02 - Andre Paradis
Yeah. No, I get it.
00:15:03 - Jerry Dugan
Oh, wait, before that, before that, I'm sorry, because I just saw a video of you and your wife. You're talking about the oh, never mind that's what come up. Go back, go back. If you remember the question, go back.
00:15:14 - Andre Paradis
So then tell me the question again, because now I'm twisted because I had.
00:15:18 - Jerry Dugan
Two of them at the same time. I wanted to go with let's take.
00:15:21 - Andre Paradis
One at a time.
00:15:22 - Jerry Dugan
All right, let's go back to the second question. So the one I didn't ask and flubbed out. I can edit all this out. This is the beauty of editing. Of course I'm going to leave it all in.
00:15:31 - Andre Paradis
Just I'm with you, laugh at myself. So pretty fun.
00:15:34 - Jerry Dugan
Your wife and yourself were in a video clip I saw just a couple of days ago. It might have been this morning. And you talk about marriage is like a dance ballroom dance analogy of like, you're both partners, you're both side by side, but one of you has the role of leading, and the other one has the role of supporting and being a part of that dance. And that marriage is a lot like that. Especially healthy marriage.
00:16:05 - Andre Paradis
Exactly like that. Yeah, it's exactly like that.
00:16:07 - Jerry Dugan
Being a Christian and in the Christian marriage and something my wife and I have talked about. Hearing that from the perspective of dance was like, yes. So I was wondering if you could unpack that for us and then we'll get to the original.
00:16:20 - Andre Paradis
Okay, well, so I'm getting you a visual to start. So if you look behind me, this is my up and I and for.
00:16:25 - Jerry Dugan
Those who can't see, it looks like a couple doing the foxtrot.
00:16:28 - Andre Paradis
It's a waltz, actually.
00:16:30 - Jerry Dugan
Waltz. I was so close.
00:16:34 - Andre Paradis
Anyway, so that's my background. Everything I teach now is in reflection. And the metaphors for dancing and relationships are fantastic. So in our culture, we like the idea of 50 50 or equality or men and women the same, which is really on paper, it sounds really great. That sounds like a good, fair deal, except and it works for business, it works for making money. But when it comes to relationship, it's a kiss of death. It actually is because it completely flies in the face of nature. By the way, everything I teach is not my opinion. Everything I teach is nature, science, chemistry, the chemistry of our brains as us behave differently. Anthropology, psychology. So this is layers. I stand on the shoulders of five masters with whom I work and study, plus my own research. Anyway, so all I'm saying is not my opinion. I teach what works in nature. And we think as humans, somehow, somewhere, again, on paper, it looks good that equality is the way to go, that men and women are the same. They're not. Again, if you look at a dance ballroom couple, they come together as two different entities, two different units, completely separate, completely apart, completely different, operating completely backwards, one from another, but made to fit complementary it's a complementary dynamic. So a leader and a supporter. Now, if you want to get stuck on equality, then but that's not fair. How come she doesn't get to lead? Because if she gets she tries to lead in the dance. I get the elbow to the face, I get the knee to the groin. We're fighting. We're not dancing. We're fighting. We're competing. So what works in relationships and in Baltimore dancing is that one has to lead more, the other one has to support more. Now, relationships are more. There's a bit of flex, obviously, because there's some give and take, something she wants to lead more that she's better at. And some things I want to acquiesce to because I'm not good at it, right? So there's a whole flex. But again, the metaphor with dancing is what leads? And we get this. I could lead in the dance and in a relationship, I could overlead. I could lead with being too big, right? I could actually hurt her. I could crank her arm. I could crank her shoulder. I could actually hurt her if I don't lead with certain sensitivities that I have to discover with her. See the fit relationships. So I lead but I'm not a pig. It's not a dictatorship. I'm not running over. She's not passive. She has no say. You think she's passive in my arms, like flying around the dance floor? You think she's passive? She's not. She's actually very active, holding her sides. I can't lead her unless she is holding space. So she's very active and doing everything I'm doing backwards in high heels, in a dress. Hello. That's not passive. However, as I learn to lead her with sensitivities for her comfort and her well being, and she also then has to trust and be vulnerable to my leadership. And she has to trust that I'm not going to spit her into a wall or chair or table another couple. She has to let go of control in order for me to lead. And in that, she gets to relax. She's not taking she's just being I'm doing all the taking and the planning, but I like it. I'm the leader, and it makes me feel good to lead for her. She gets to let go of the leadership. In that moment, she's being open and vulnerable, which makes her shine feminine energy. No one's looking at me. Everyone's looking at her. She gets all the glory. And in that moment, that radiance, that feminine radiance that we all delight in so much is all over space. And I must say this, I can still make my wife squeal on the dance floor. I can still surprise her. It's such in the moment kind of thing where she allows me to take her on an adventure on a dance floor, understanding that I know what I'm doing, I know how to lead her gently as needed and strongly as needed, according to what we're doing. But she's open and understand that she's safe. I got it. She can relax into this, and it's an adventure, and she doesn't know where it's going to go. But she's open that. She loves that on some level, right? Ultimately, she's safe. And that's exactly the same metaphor that I find in relationship.
00:20:55 - Jerry Dugan
And it's like her trust in you is a response. I mean, there's that initial, I need to let go and let him lead. And then as you build that consistency, like, you can trust me as I lead you, she's responding to that more and more and more. If you went into that pig mode like you were talking about, the response, that wouldn't happen. I don't want to dance with this guy anymore.
00:21:16 - Andre Paradis
Exactly.
00:21:17 - Jerry Dugan
Yeah.
00:21:18 - Andre Paradis
And if she decides she won't let me lead or will not be vulnerable to my leadership, we're going to be fighting, and I'm going to leave her on the dance floor myself because it goes both ways. Right. Again. And that trust is actually, I call it, you want to build a trustworthy record. So as a man, if you're going to lead, then you have to know where you're going for her to be able to let go. If you don't know where you're going, she can't follow. Yeah, right on the dance floor. The moment I doubt myself. I don't know if you ever done I've done gymnastics, of course. Part of my training. And I remember sometimes you have to be so present and so vigilant when you do gymnastics because and I've done it for 1 second, you're up in the air, upside down, you go, Wait, what am I doing? Boom. You like break your neck, right? But you cannot be not present for a fraction of a second. And I remember I was tired that day when that happened. Same thing in the dance. If I'm leading her and all of a sudden I go away, what am I doing? That moment where there's a question and I lose literally instantly in the leadership, energetically. She'll stiffen right up. She'll stiffen right up and try to correct or fill in and she freaks out like she knows that I'm not in control and she's in my arms, I'm driving, right? Same in relationships. So again, I go back to nature. It's not a dictatorship. It's not leader and doormat, right? This is where people always take it to, right? So women in our culture want to be leaders now because they're better than doormats. That's not it. If you can't support the leadership and want to get in a dance and do it together and do it the way that it works better with all the adjustments required per our personalities and style. But if you refuse to let the man lead, you end up on a dance floor by yourself. So it's not dictatorship, it's not doormat, it's not him in front and you behind. That's like how they said, the patriarchy. Okay, don't give me going to patriarchy. That's not at all what people make it out to be. Different show, right? But so in our culture now, women are convinced that they now have the right to get in front of men. So it's not even a question to believe. It's like, now it's our turn. We're going to get in front of men. Well, that doesn't work at all either. So it's not him in front of you in front. It's a partnership. Side by side, it's working together. It's a partnership. It's pilot, copilot, president, vice president, right? Navigator, driver. And without the other one, if both pilots go for the wheel, the plane crashes and that's what happens. So we can't be equal in love dynamics. It doesn't work. It flies in the face of nature. There's a polarity that has to be in place. Masculine, feminine, ying yang, up, down, day, night. One cannot exist without the other. Polarity is essential to keep the energy between working. That means the more opposite we are in relationship, the more magnetic polarized we are, the better it works. Equality destroys relationships. Yeah.
00:24:23 - Jerry Dugan
I think a lot of what we're seeing is that pushback to this type of dynamic is because there have been people out there who've abused that idea of I'm the lead, therefore what I say goes. And you've talked about this a number of times already. Just that being the head or being the leadership yeah. Doesn't mean dictatorship.
00:24:43 - Andre Paradis
Absolutely not. That's not a partnership.
00:24:45 - Jerry Dugan
Exactly. Yeah. And I love that you're bringing that important ingredient there, that they are partners. They're side by side. Even from the Christian perspective, eve comes out of the side of Adam, not above or below the yeah, yeah. Not from the backside. It's the side. And that's a very key detail that a lot of people like to gloss over. And I'm watching a documentary with my wife right now about anyway, it was about the Dugan family, and there's this hierarchy in there. It's like oh, wow. But the way it's communicated or at least perceived was like, the value of people is in this hierarchy. And I was like, well, but you're talking about roles. Like, one needs to lead in a dance, the other one needs to support and follow. And it's the same in a relationship. One does lead a little bit more than the other. Doesn't mean that the wife has no.
00:25:36 - Andre Paradis
Voice, I don't think that absolutely not. That's not at all. I'm saying you got it.
00:25:40 - Jerry Dugan
Yeah. I know why women struggle with it. Because there is that history of things like domestic violence and men being powerful and controlling. And I think it's up to the men to start to make that shift because there's almost like this. Either I've got to be overly masculine to a point where I'm a caricature, or not be masculine at all. And so there's this confusion around what is masculinity, what's a healthy way about going about this for us men? What is that way to come in to a marriage relationship so that we are leading? And you've given a lot of hints, but for the guys that just need to hear it in black and white, step by step, if there's a way to present that. Yeah, there's a lot of nuance in all this, guys.
00:26:27 - Andre Paradis
There is. But at the same time, it's very basic and rather simple. Again, this dance that I'm talking about as bone couple, when you watch them glide and they look as seamless, it's beautiful, it's art. It's unbelievably beautiful to watch. Like it's so wildly smooth. Right. And they're not talking, but they're communicating. What I'm saying is, it wasn't like this in the beginning. They step on each other's toes. You got the elbow to the nose, I promise you. And then he did a groin and she got cranked over too hard and pulled on her shoulder. Whatever. But it takes practice together to get the flow of how do we do this? So we're two different entities becoming one. Again, it's a partnership that's complementary stuff, and that just takes practice. But in our culture, we think it's supposed to. Be easy and smooth and happening really quickly, and the woman is no fun. It's the wrong person. It's ridiculous. If bald and dancers were like this, it's never fun in rehearsal, it's always work. And it's a matter of problem solving and conflict resolution in relationships. It's not in the good times that you find out who you're dancing with, it's in the conflict. And the conflict resolution is when you actually build a trustworthy record to understand and know as you have conflicts and hopefully adults and talk about it like adults, as opposed to trying to win or blame each other, is it a conflict resolution? You create intimacy, connection and trustworthy record. Ultimately, just like in a relationship, ballroom dancers are trying to solve the problem of how do we get this to work? So we both have each other's interests at heart. Not my way, not her way. US. How do we get to look like these people who are smiling, gliding and practice and in that it's all the discomfort of getting to that place. So in our culture, we think it should be easy. It's not. This takes work. That's what smart people do. They get to work. Right? So that's the work that I do. Yeah.
00:28:38 - Jerry Dugan
Oh, man. And it's very important to know where to make those adjustments, how to understand what your partner is wanting in the relationship, what she's needing in the relationship is huge.
00:28:48 - Andre Paradis
Amen. Amen.
00:28:50 - Jerry Dugan
The easy outs are, no, we're doing it my way or you do it yourself.
00:28:58 - Andre Paradis
How's that going to end up exactly that couple again? If you just look at the world of dancing, if you can't work together and solve it together, you're going to end up not on the floor together.
00:29:11 - Jerry Dugan
Yeah.
00:29:12 - Andre Paradis
And you blame each other for it? Sometimes if you're not paying attention and if you decide that you could be uncomfortable with things, you could be out of sort with things, you could be puzzled, right? Men and women puzzled and confused the hell out of each other all the time. Because we're two different machines. Again, there's no equality in our beings. Just look back at anthropology and there's a reason why we survive. We survive because we bring opposite things to the table. To survive, women need protection to survive in nature, and men need to get their stuff together, dive together and be able to provide, protect women and give and cherish them is the bonus on top of this. But nature is made. We're made to be polarized together and work together. So if we don't want to do that, we don't get to dance, right? Yeah.
00:29:57 - Jerry Dugan
Well, somebody once told me, if you both are exactly the same, one of you is redundant.
00:30:04 - Andre Paradis
It's true. It's very funny, because in my business, if I talk to a person who has challenges, right, they call me about the relationship or the lack of relationship or what always happens. Just talking to the one person, I could tell you quickly who the other person is or who they attract naturally. Because there's always a yang yang. If you're a masculine woman, if you're a masculine woman, you'll attract a feminine man, period. Because it's not about anything else but energy. It's energy that pulls us together. Magnetism. Polarity is nature. So masculine women attract feminine men who do nothing that masculine men do. And by the way, those are the toxic ones. Those are the cheaters. Those are liars. Those are manipulators. Those are the ones who do all the stuff. They talk about toxic, masculine, feminine men, I call them boys. Comes from that. Men don't do that. Boys. That's what they do. But if you're a masculine woman, you only attract boys. You'll think that's men. And you're the one talking crap about toxic masculinity. And men, you can't trust them. And they're all cheaters and liars. Yeah, in your world, you're right. But that's only a small percentage of the populace of men. So that's a tragedy in my world, right?
00:31:20 - Jerry Dugan
All those behaviors are coming from a place of insecurity, in a sense.
00:31:23 - Andre Paradis
Like broken. She's broken. He's broken. Right? Because I'm going to say this, and we raise women, first of all, in a culture to be masculine. And so it's culturally, since they're five years old, they're raised in fear of the masculine, in fear of man by their mothers, by the system, by the school, by the girlfriends, by their friends. Right? You can't trust men. So go girl, protect yourself. Build your own life. Great. Except that fear will actually keep you from understanding how to get along with men. It's incredibly damaging if eventually this is my business, all my clients. You have a business, you have a career, you have a life, you make money, you have your own car, house, life, blah blah. Women say I have everything and I'm still young. Nobody wants to date me. Well, because you're looking for masculine men and you don't attract those guys because your masculine energy turns them off. Like masculine men don't want to be with masculine women. Hunters are not attracted to hunters. Hunters don't date hunters. Right. So the Ying yang is in place again. And men just respond to that. It's not a thought process. It's just reactive. So masculine women, they're everywhere in our culture. Go, girl. Boss babe. Okay, good. And they make money. They're capable, they're amazing. They've proven they could do everything except being racial with men. Because their energy has not been focused on understanding men. Trying to be in a dance with that, learning to dance with men, understanding how that all works. They spend all their time making money. So what I'm saying is, it's fine, but there's a price to pay for this. And like I said, when your energy is over polarized into masculine needle trap, the opposite. And the possibilities of relationships long term, healthy goes out the window with that these are all my clients and it's not their fault, right. It's just how it happened. Yeah.
00:33:13 - Jerry Dugan
I think what really is standing out to me is that in no way, shape or form here have you been talking about the value of one person over another. You've been strictly talking about energy and dynamic and a little bit around roles that have shown to work, especially in the United States, Canada, a lot of the Western world, in elements of nature. Even I keep thinking of, like a lion pride.
00:33:41 - Andre Paradis
Even there, male is everywhere. Nature is the same. Yeah. Female never is like the male. They're always made to be complementary, so their species continues and survive. Insects, animals, all of it. It's called nature. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm teaching. And when we step away from nature, it confuses everyone. Everything makes it complicated. We don't understand why it should be better. It's not. You're going against nature. You could go against nature all you want, it's fine, because we can, because we're adaptable. Except the price to pay is no relationship, no love, no kids, no family. Some of my clients that are 56 years old, single, no man, no marriage, no kids. And they're miserable and antidepressant and they wonder what happened to their lives, right? They got stuck in a money lane or go girl lane, as opposed to the love lane. And women who actually want it all, which is most of them, typically, everybody wants it, all, right? Women want it all. They want to be independent, strong, powerful and have families and kids. Except you can't do both. It's too full time job. No one can do it. So if you pick the money lane because you were raised that way and you think it's a better idea, you will not be able to slip into the love lane very well. Very few could do it. Yeah. So there's a way to have it all, which is not the way we teach it in our culture, or that we model in our culture. I understand that women who work hard to build their lives, which is, again, it's a choice, it's fantastic. It's often not their fault. They're just being conditioned. That's the thing to do first and later on, maybe find a husband and have a couple of kids, maybe. Well, the problem with that is, by the age of 35, men who want to be married are married. And this is when it gets complicated, having children. Women burn their youth on the money lane and they think they're going to get the love lane later, and it doesn't work again, it gets against nature. By the age of 35, you understand that. Trying to get pregnant at 35, the doctors call that geriatric pregnancy. That's not cute. That is not cute. Right? If you want it all, you have to do it the other way. And there's a whole different topic. But if you go with nature. You got to use your youth for what the youth is good for attracting men, having choices, and be able to be fertile and make babies. It doesn't mean you don't do the money. Lane but you could specialize in something in school, you could get your diploma, you get degrees, your Master's, whatever. But if you wait too long, the other side of your life won't show up. So you start there. Focus on family and babies. Wait a few years because typically by five the kids are in school. You get your life back and give your space back. And then women will step back in life and their business, their career, their lives. That's having it all. But not the other way. Yeah, we started the way is HR terrible. And I get to stories about women who just go, I did it wrong, I did it wrong. I believe my mother. I should have done the other way. Because having it all is love. Lane first career later. Yeah. Not the other way around. It's sad to watch.
00:36:56 - Jerry Dugan
Doesn't mean they can't set the stage early on, have the start of the family and then go on as well.
00:37:05 - Andre Paradis
Your 20s are typically you could go to school, you get a degree in master's and stuff, but you also have to if you want kids, you have to manage that then. Now a lot of ladies get sucked into the life and the work and production and I guess by the time it's too late yeah. I mean, they tell you horrible stories that women waited too long, and even with the possibility is there later on, their body is like, no, wow, devastating.
00:37:30 - Jerry Dugan
Just health risks that are involved when having babies later, like in late 30s, early 40s even.
00:37:35 - Andre Paradis
But I mean, also the pool of men who are willing to do this that late, the guys, men who want babies and families already done it. So it's even harder to find somebody at that age who wants to do this with you. Because either the ones that are available are either weird or they've been divorced. They don't want to do that again because the ones who wanted this have done it, are doing it. And women say this to me all the time, all the good ones. The good ones are taken. I'm like, right? Yeah. Again, back to very traditional. Traditional men want traditional women. Traditional women do what traditional women do, traditional man.
00:38:07 - Jerry Dugan
And then I wonder also, like, men who never really seem to grow up either, like we talked about a little bit, the boys. Boys. So I know of men who are at least they're men by age, but they're in their 30s, their mid 30s, even everywhere.
00:38:23 - Andre Paradis
They're everywhere.
00:38:24 - Jerry Dugan
They can't navigate a relationship to save their lives, but they want one. But then they act like a boy. They either cheat on their partner or they avoid commitment or it's always about what I want. So they're not really leading in a sense.
00:38:40 - Andre Paradis
They're not at all.
00:38:41 - Jerry Dugan
Yeah. And so I wonder if do you run into that as well with the coaching you do, where these men are like, how do I lead?
00:38:48 - Andre Paradis
Yeah. No, absolutely. Because in our culture, as well as masculinizing women with feminized men, so men are now afraid to be toxic, afraid to be pushy, afraid to be lean in, afraid to offend, afraid to be accused of all kinds of ridiculous crap when it comes to nature and being leading women and stepping in to go, how you're pretty. I'd like to get to know you. Oh, that's toxic. Okay, well, what do I do? Send a text. Women hate that, right? So men are confused, and men are stepping back, and they don't know how to do it. And they were told that being masculine is toxic.
00:39:21 - Jerry Dugan
Yeah.
00:39:22 - Andre Paradis
Think about this for 1 second, right? To be masculine is toxic. So they don't know what to do. But women will complain. Men aren't doing anything. How come? They just want to hang out. They don't make plans. They don't come after us. I'm like, well, congratulations. The agenda is working.
00:39:37 - Jerry Dugan
Why won't they be masculine?
00:39:40 - Andre Paradis
Because they're not supposed to be, according to everyone, and they're toxic, dangerous. Okay, well, there you go. You got it. So you should want them to be classic, traditional, but you constantly tell them there's something wrong with them, and they're not supposed to be that. And then you wonder why they don't do anything. But men will come at me. Boys typically and I hate to say this, but it's just reality. Numbers are there. It's not my opinion data. Boys typically boys typically come from single mother families. They don't have male role models. They don't know how to be men. They don't have nobody to role model masculinity. And out there, it's not modeled in any way because it's wrong. And they're raised by women who raise them to be sensitive and sweet and live their lives through their feelings as opposed to their logic. And so they don't want to logically do anything that requires manning up. They don't want to be challenged. They don't want to push. They don't want to compete. They don't want to fight. They want to be comfortable. They were made comfortable too long, and they actually see women as a source of comfort, as in, she's supposed to make me comfortable, as opposed to what real men do. That real men want to make women comfortable. They will fight and push and conquer and build something big to have them able and capable of taking care of a woman and kids and family. Masculinity prides itself in that. These guys, these boys just don't want any of it. They want to be the girl. They want women to work. And so they're pro feminist, pro 50 50 pro, I don't want to take your power so you pay for dinner half of it. Right. Seriously, they don't want the responsibilities. They don't want to marry. They don't want to bake kids. They don't want to take responsibility for kids. It's incredible. So that's what we produce. Congratulations, people. We really messed everything up, right? Yeah. And again, it's against nature. It doesn't work. So men will come at me with, I don't know how to do this. How do I do this? I'm like, okay, well, step up. Step up. Challenge yourself. Push. Build something. Build something that's hard to build. Build something that you have to discipline yourself for something greater than you do. You have to push for, fight for. This is how you build your character. This is how you build your confidence, and that's how you make money, and that's how you actually become capable in the world that will give you self respect and the respect of both men and women. And when you're capable, you could do whatever you want. You could find yourself a woman and take care of her and have kids and build a family and a whole kingdom around you. That's what you have to do. To this day, men's roles has never changed. Men are still expected to be traditional in that way. Provide, protect, cherish, and support. Right. Women, children, that's never changed. Today, we're still judged, if you don't do this, you play a video game and you're 30 years old and live in your mother's house. Loser. Right. So women aren't interested in these guys, and guys don't respect those guys. So men's roles have never changed. We're still expected to be traditional, except in our culture. We teach women to never be traditional. You're better than that. Houston, there's a problem.
00:42:48 - Jerry Dugan
Yeah, it clashes together, and I love it. Throughout this whole conversation, you've touched on those main ingredients. I'm bringing this all back together for us.
00:42:55 - Andre Paradis
Yes, sir.
00:42:56 - Jerry Dugan
You've touched on things like the role of leading in that dance and in that relationship. So there's that confidence that I can lead us here, here and here. That benefits both of us, having that sensitivity. Not in terms of, like, I'm going to cry for every little thing, although I will cry at a good, sad part of a movie. But that's not the point. The point is the sensitivity to read your partner, that this is what she's feeling, this is what she's needing, or just ask, hey, I kind of feel like you have something more you need to say. The sensitivity to navigate the needs of your partner, the courage to navigate that, to adjust, to meet your partner's needs, meet your own needs as well. Not to be the dominant person. And I think one phrase I heard was like that of a tender warrior, that you're strong, you're tough, you protect, and then at the same time, you can flip the switch and you could be that tender father, the tender husband, the doting, the cherishing husband. Kind of thing.
00:44:02 - Andre Paradis
I call that devoted masculinity. Love that masculine men devoted to their families. So there's a softer angle in that warrior out there. Devoted husband will fight and protect and kill his family. However, the daddy lover energy is in.
00:44:19 - Jerry Dugan
The I think, I don't know why, but the character, the joker from Full Metal Jacket, the duality of man, it's like these are two parts of the same man. He can be that protector, that warrior, and also that tender, loving person in the home. Both are still leading and neither are know, neither are I love that we've had this conversation and I want folks to have a chance to be able to tap into your coaching. So you got project Equinox net. I know that's your website, but tell us about Project Equinox and the coaching programs you offer.
00:44:58 - Andre Paradis
Well, actually I have a gift for your clients or your listeners. I think that would be more appropriate, know, it'll help more. From my experience, I do a lot of podcasting because my mission is to spread this around the planet and so give people hope, especially both men and women. But we're in pain differently. I want to say this is what I say every day, but there is a way to do this. This hope, this understanding what's out there is not working. What they're teaching us in our culture, this tidal wave of cultural belief is not working. If you want long term relationship, it's just not working. So, I mean, I'm not a moralist, right? You do whatever you want. I'm saying if you want to know how to build healthy long term relationship, you can't listen to what's out there. It'll mess you up. And I'm not going back to the 50s. Right? There's a modern way to do classical stuff. It's a modern twist. It's still pretty traditional in the sense we just talked about, plus modern ways because we live in a modern world. As I do these podcasts to spread hope and try to change a belief system, that's not working. That's going to take a while, by the way. It's my mission. But as I go to podcasts, there's typically two types of people who get on podcasts who listen to podcasts. There are people who just want information. They're just curious, they want information. So if somebody's listening wants information about me or my work, I have a book, I have it right here. It's called five feminine qualities. High value men find absolutely irresistible in women. You can buy it on my website. If your listeners who are curious about material information, email me at Andrecoaching, the number one Andrecoachingtheonumber one at gmail and in the title write irresistible book. I will just send you the book. That's all me. That's a gift. So if the second type listeners, typically listeners will get on podcasts to find tools. They want to learn something, they want to take action. If you're action taking person, email me at Andrecoaching, one at Gmail. And in the title Write Talk now that'll send me a signal that you want to have a conversation with me. I will send you a zoom link and we'll get on a 1 hour call, the VIP call, one on one, and we'll talk about what you heard that connected with you, what's not working, where you struggling and what is a dream. And then that I'll present my different packages, right? The small, medium, large, extra large, all that stuff, plus group and all tiers of information and or investment that you want to step in. So that is my gift to your listeners. I'm on TikTok, I'm on Instagram, YouTube, I'm all over the place. If you go to the website, these channels all connected down below, I do a million podcasts. So if you just even Google my name, Andre parody podcast, you have an avalanche of stuff to kind of give you a taste of what we just did with different ways. And yeah, I encourage people to really take advantage of that call, though, to book a call with me, to just really get personal and that call. But some people change their lives because a lot of people don't understand that's what they do. The psychology of our lives and our choices that nobody gets out of childhood unscathed. We all experience abuse, neglect, and abandonment. We have different issues. Some people have all of it. Right? So interestingly enough, women who typically are stuck in being masculine never felt safe as little girls, so they cannot develop their femininity, right? It's not their fault. It's just a product of whatever happened. We little to peel that back. I'm very good at this. In just the next 20 minutes, peel that back and understand there's nothing wrong with you. You're a product of seriously, that call will change their lives. Just understanding there's nothing wrong with them. That it's the and again belief system that you don't remember decision you've made about the world, people like yourself that drive you subconsciously. Then you think you're making choices, but you're stuck. Right? So that's an amazing call on its own. So I suggest have a little courage because it takes a little courage on a one on one. But this is who I am. I'm just this guy. I want you aside. I want you to win. I want to help alleviate the pain and confusion so that's an opportunity to get in and then maybe get in other places. Like I said, the group coaching is amazing and all the way up to the big one on one.
00:49:24 - Jerry Dugan
You know, I've been doing my homework on you, Andre. And for anybody who's still wondering like, well, what's their relationship like, his relationship. And from what I've seen, your wife is not June Cleaver. She is not a stepford wife at all. There was nothing about her that is like that I'm like. They look like a modern hip so they definitely compliment you guys, compliment each other. From everything I've seen, the videos I've watched, the engagements, and her presence on the web, your presence on the web. It's the real deal, guys. And so before we go, Andre, any final words of wisdom to share with folks?
00:50:02 - Andre Paradis
Well, I say be very careful where you buy into that's being fed to you through our culture. Be very careful. And ultimately, I say you have to think it through. Don't get yourself on cruise control with what the world tells you you should be, you should do. You should become. Again, I say this with all my heart, and it pains me to even say this, because I see it. In all culture, we raise women to be suspicious, afraid, and to not trust men. How is that helping? It's not. So the women feeling vulnerable and unsafe in the world will then step into being masculine to protect themselves and be capable, which is fantastic, except it typically goes too far. And the struggle with all my clients is not knowing when they go too far, not knowing where to recalibrate, not knowing the actual. I call it a sweet spot. There's a sweet spot. It's a way to do both that allows you to have both life. My wife has, I think, the perfect be. She's a mother and a wife, but she's also living a dream. As a ballerina. She teaches in studios, two schools locally. She works part time, makes full time money, travels to set numbers in different dance companies around the United States. So she gets to live her dream career, to be a mentor to dancers. That's her dream. And she's also a mom and a wife because her life is set up that she could do both that's having it all. So watch with the culture where you buy into, right? And stop listening to women who are angry and don't trust men, whether it's your mother, your friend. 30% of men are boys, okay? We know this the statistic. 30% of men out there are boys. I mean, 70% are not. The 30% that are boys are toxic and dangerous and everything you'd be suspicious of, great. 70% are not. So let's go discover that Paradisgm and that so again, sweet spot. Sweet spot by smart people. Smart people. I'm just saying smart people don't have to learn their own mistakes. They learn from others mistake. They get around with other like, they get it before they have to fall in their own faces. So I'm saying, again, watch what the culture is teaching you. Both men and women, right? Women don't like sweet men. Nice guy syndrome does not work. There's a reason. Because nice guy syndrome doesn't have the mojo of a masculine I got it energy that makes women feel safe. Women don't feel safe with nice guys. They say they have what they wanted, but ultimately, their bodies, their instinct, their intuition, their DNA says no, he can't protect me. He's too sweet, he's too soft. I am on my own. I could probably kick his butt, right? So women want the sensitivity of men and they say they want sensitive men, but they really don't want a feminine man. They don't want a soft man. So, again, that's a dance, right? So he wants to be masculine with sensitivity. And when a woman feels safe, she actually is allowed and is able to slip into her feminine and unavoldability where she's the most comfortable. It's so freaking beautiful and natural. But to make man the enemy, ladies, to protect yourself, to man up and to take control of everything means the opposite of vulnerability is control. Control is masculine. So if you want control, you're never going to find yourself attracting a masculine man. Let him lead. So you can slip into relaxing, into and by the way, that openness makes you more feminine, relax your nervous system, makes you grounded, allows you to open up, be warm, energetically, to be radiant. And this is the gift that you bring to humanity and us males. Your femininity lifts our spirit. Your femininity warms us up. Your femininity, we want to protect. We want to protect it. It's precious. When you're masculine, we don't want to protect it. Your masculinity is competitive with ours. We don't protect masculine women. It's energetically. It's a feminine energy that we delight in. Anyway. I could do this all day long. You know it oh, man. Yeah.
00:54:17 - Jerry Dugan
I'm like sitting here just listening and I'm like, oh, yeah, we're wrapping up, aren't we? Andre, it was a pleasure. I knew when we got introduced to each other on Pod Match that this was going to be a great conversation. A very deep, mean yeah. Just the back and forth this whole time has kept my interest piqued and I hope those of you listening in that this has been of value to you and definitely take advantage of these gifts that Andre is offering up. Andre, again, thank you for being on here.
00:54:45 - Andre Paradis
Absolutely. Thank you for helping me spread that out and bring hope for the world out there. That's my mission. Thank you.
00:54:53 - Jerry Dugan
Wow. I hope you took a lot of notes like I did. Andre was great to speak with. In fact, we took up the entire hour slot just to keep going and we took it to the very end until it was time to switch over to another interview. Now, if you want more on Andre, how you can reach out to him, more resources, all those good things on healthy relationships as well as past episodes that we've covered here on beyond the Rut on Healthy Marriage, then go to the show notes@beyondtherut.com three eight eight. There you'll find links to Andre, raise resources as well as our own to help you thrive in your marriage. Now hit the share button as well. Send this episode to somebody you think would also appreciate.
00:55:35 - Andre Paradis
It.
00:55:36 - Jerry Dugan
And you know what? I'm glad you joined me for this episode. I look forward to joining you again on the next one. But until next time, go live life beyond the rut. Take care. Bye.