00:00:00 - Simon Ree So it's well, again, it's about maintaining emotional control. Now, nobody can maintain 100% control. 100% of the time, we're all going to have flashes of emotion, whether it's fear or lust or desire or excitement or it happens. We're human, but it's being able to identify it and not let it take control. Because when the when the executive brain seeds control to the emotional brain, it really does compromise your ability to make high quality decisions. 00:00:35 - Jerry Dugan Do you feel like you're stuck in a rut in life or in a dead end job with no progression? I'm Jerry Dugan, and welcome to beyond the Rut, the podcast that offers you the motivation, inspiration, and practical tools to. 00:00:47 - Jerry Dugan Help you build a life worth living. 00:00:49 - Jerry Dugan My show is here to help you break free from your limitations and find. 00:00:52 - Jerry Dugan A path to success. 00:00:54 - Jerry Dugan Join me as I share encouraging stories and actionable advice on how to get out of your rut in life and create a vision for your future. Life is just too short to live stuck in a rut. Here we go. 00:01:08 - Jerry Dugan Hey, rudder nation. This is Jerry, and this episode's special guest is Simon Ree. Simon is a martial arts expert, but more importantly, he has over three decades in the financial markets teaching people how to make and build wealth through the stock market. So he's the author of the book called The Tau of Trading. He used to work for Goldman Sachs. He used to work for City at senior level leadership positions. And his vision is to help people live more creative, joyful, inspired lives by alleviating financial burden. So we're going to be talking about in this episode how we can overcome the emotions that tend to overtake us when it comes to making investment decisions. So how do we overcome those emotions? Master those emotions so that we can build multiple streams of income, so that we don't have to work a nine to five at the expense of our dreams, our family, our fitness, and our fun, all those things that make a good life. So sit back, relax, grab a notebook and a pen. Here we go. 00:02:17 - Jerry Dugan All right. Hey, Simon, thanks for joining me. How are you doing? 00:02:20 - Simon Ree Hey, Jerry, thanks for having me. I'm really well. Thanks. 00:02:22 - Jerry Dugan Awesome. And I just want to give a quick shout out to Tom and Karen Schwab over at Interview Valet. I've known them for years and. 00:02:31 - Simon Ree They. 00:02:32 - Jerry Dugan Are way back from when we would do an icebreaker about six degrees of separation factor fiction, and we would ask our guests, how are you connected to Renee Zellweger? And I think that made him nervous. He was prepared, actually. Yeah, he was. He came in, he knew his favorite Renee Zellweger movie, and we had a conversation from there. I'm not going to hit you with that because we hung that up a long time ago. So don't tell Tom. He brought up sorry, man. It was just memory lane. Memory lane. But, yeah, we connected through interview valet. I love those guys because every time they refer somebody to me, it's a great fit for myself, my audience, rudder nation and all that good stuff. So you're calling in from Singapore? 00:03:19 - Simon Ree That's right. 00:03:20 - Jerry Dugan Awesome. And I know it's wintertime while we're recording, but you said Singapore only has one season. 00:03:26 - Simon Ree Hot. Pretty much. Singapore is very close to the equator, so there's very little seasonal variation. We have a monsoon season between November and January, but all that means that it rains every day rather than every third day. Right. 00:03:44 - Jerry Dugan A lot of people don't appreciate that. Texas especially. It's a dry heat, man. It's dry heat. Now, one of the things that stood out to me about you is you're a Jeet Kundo instructor. 00:03:57 - Simon Ree That's right, yeah. 00:03:58 - Jerry Dugan What does that entail? Like, do you bust heads when people. 00:04:01 - Simon Ree Try to steal your wallet all the time? No. Gkndo is the martial art that Bruce Lee developed. And martial arts have been a part of my life for most of my life. I started with judo when I was nine years old and progressed to karate, and I've studied moitai and Western boxing and ninjitsu and various martial arts. And I love all martial arts. I really don't get into these my martial art is better than your martial art type conversations. But Jeet kundeau is the one that, for whatever reason, just resonated with me, and it's the one that I kind of pursued all the way up to instructor level. 00:04:45 - Jerry Dugan Nice. And I wanted to bring that up because I want everybody listening in to pay attention to the episode art. Because when you see Simon on the street and you have this idea of, I'm going to take his wallet, don't don't ask for his watch, don't try to take his shoes. Just remember this episode art and say, oh, that's Simon, he knows how to defend himself. But I love that because, one, I haven't had anybody who is an instructor in that. And I thought, yeah, I'm going to bring that up. And not just a joke about don't try to mug Simon. But I'm sure with being a martial arts instructor, it's more than just about being able to fight and having reflexes, if I remember correctly and understand correctly, there's kind of a discipline element to it as well. Could you tell us a bit more about that in life? 00:05:43 - Simon Ree When you become involved in the martial arts, it helps you in everyday real life in so many ways. It teaches you victor Frankel talks about between a stimulus and a response, there's a gap, and it teaches you to find that gap and look for it and make the most of it. Mike Tyson has got that very famous quote, everyone's got a plan until he gets punched in the face. 00:06:10 - Jerry Dugan Right. 00:06:11 - Simon Ree And when you've been punched in the face a few times, you learn to respond rather than react. And I think it's a really powerful skill. Look, I'm sure there are many, many ways to learn it, but my way was, I guess, the school of hard knocks, right through martial arts, but you become, I think, much less flappable in normal situations. If you're active on Twitter, for example, some people get really, really upset by words on a screen. When you've got some 200 pound bloke on top of you, trying to choke the life out of you, that is a stressful situation. Words on a screen, they just wash over you. Somebody's mean to me on Twitter, I do not care. I really don't care. 00:06:58 - Jerry Dugan Do I even know this person? 00:07:00 - Simon Ree Yeah, exactly right. I think it helps with perspective. It helps a lot with emotional control. I mean, if you can go through your life and choose the non emotional response to a situation, just look at how much better your life will get. 00:07:16 - Jerry Dugan Yes. And I'm sure this is something that's applied for you in the 28 years working with Goldman Sachs and the many more years with Citibank, because you've definitely seen markets go up and down. In what ways have you seen your ability to prioritize because of martial arts and put perspective? 00:07:38 - Simon Ree Well, again, it's about maintaining emotional control. Now, nobody can maintain 100% control 100% of the time. We're all going to have flashes of emotion, whether it's fear or lust or desire or excitement or it happens. We're human, but it's being able to identify it and not let it take control. Because when the executive brain seeds control to the emotional brain, it really does compromise your ability to make high quality decisions. And this happens in markets a lot, particularly when markets are going either really well for you or really badly for you. If they're going really well for you, you become blase. You can not be as diligent on your setups and your risk management. And I've got a no high fives rule. If ever I feel like high fiving myself on what a great trader I am, I go to cash. I just close all of my positions because I just know the market's about to teach me a lesson. 00:08:42 - Jerry Dugan Wow. 00:08:43 - Simon Ree But similarly, it can affect you. You can go through an emotional downswing as well. And this is when people start they get in a hole, they start revenge trading, they start thinking the markets out to get them, and they respond in an emotionally negative way, and that's just as damaging. So I always say if my emotional state fluctuates anywhere beyond sort of mild contentment to mild disappointment, I need to recalibrate. 00:09:13 - Jerry Dugan Yeah, I kind of experienced that high. I believe it was last year I finally bought my first individual stock. It wasn't just like my company's, 403 b or four hundred and one K. I actually opened up an account and got my first stock. It was in Walt Disney Company, and it was when it was at its peak in 2022. So $152 a share. 00:09:36 - Simon Ree I was like, yes. 00:09:37 - Jerry Dugan It went up, like, one whole dollar. 00:09:39 - Jerry Dugan I'm like, yes, it's going higher. 00:09:41 - Jerry Dugan And then it didn't. It dropped as low as I think, $85 a share. And here I am with, like, 150 shares, and I'm like, But I held on because it's going up to 200. I'm going to win. This is going to be awesome. And at the time, the numbers worked, but at the same time, when I looked at it again, the indicators were there. No, wait a SEC, it's about to go on sale. Eventually, I got that money back, got back in at the lower price, very minimal loss, more gain. I can say it's still small numbers in comparison, but they say oftentimes buy low, sell high. And we see a lot of people in general do the complete opposite. They get excited, and they buy in when it's high, and then they freak out, and they sell when the price is plummeting. And we see this in real estate as well. And anyway, I thought it's really important to be able to put those emotions in check, kind of stick to those numbers. But you used a phrase here that I hadn't heard before, and that's revenge trading. What is revenge trading? 00:10:50 - Simon Ree It's something that undisciplined traders can get into. They'll get in a trade, and you know that they'll buy Disney and and Disney kicks them in the ass, and then they're always looking for a way to make their money back, but it's got to be in Disney stock. They won't make their money back in Google or JPMorgan. No, it's got to be in Disney stock. And they're always looking to stick it to Disney stocks for some reason. Yeah, so they don't have, like, a. 00:11:18 - Jerry Dugan Portfolio they can mess around with to keep increasing their income. I'm going to get my money back specifically from them and that guy. 00:11:25 - Simon Ree It happened, and again, there is zero rational basis for it. It is a 100% emotional decision. 00:11:32 - Jerry Dugan I see. 00:11:33 - Simon Ree Okay. 00:11:33 - Jerry Dugan All right, so I'm almost there. Not quite, though. 00:11:37 - Simon Ree Okay. 00:11:38 - Jerry Dugan I did love the company. That's all. 00:11:40 - Simon Ree Awesome. 00:11:41 - Jerry Dugan Well, thanks for clarifying that for me, too, because that is something to keep in mind. We think we have to get our money back in that specific company and kind of get them back in some weird way, but it's probably like working out. If you don't work out, you're only cheating yourself, it sounds like. 00:11:56 - Simon Ree So true. Yeah. 00:11:59 - Jerry Dugan Now, something else you had talked about when we're talking about Jeet Kundo, and that was that gap, like, the thing you want to get done and kind of where you are, you're getting punched in the face in that sense. And there's that word inflation. And I know from your website you talk about the importance of having a second income and having worked a nine to five job. Both of us, most folks who have just that one job only have that one stream of income, and you're really just probably one conversation away from ticking off the wrong person, and that's it. You have zero streams of income. What are some of the reasons why we should have that second stream of income other than in case I lose my job? What does that do for us to have that second stream of income or that second income, as you say on the website? 00:12:49 - Simon Ree Well, a couple of things. Bank Rate did a survey last year, and they found that 57% of Americans couldn't come up with $1,000 for an emergency expenditure. All right? So 57% of Americans are essentially living paycheck to paycheck. So you can bet they don't have an investment portfolio, they don't own stocks, they don't have an investment property. It's very hard for these people to maintain this standard of living if they're not asset owners. So inflation, it rewards asset owners and it screws wage earners because real wages are nominal, wage gains are positive, but they're not keeping pace with inflation. All right? So unless you've got some way of increasing your wage or your salary 8910 percent per annum, you're losing out to inflation, you're losing purchasing power. Now, inflation rewards asset owners because property prices tend to do okay, and stock markets go up and okay, we have the OD bear market, we have the OD property downturn, but over time, they generally do pretty well in terms of as wealth generation vehicles. So asset owners will fare okay in an inflationary environment, wage earners won't. And if you're earning a wage, you're earning a salary. It's generally not up to you how much you earn. It's usually the discretion of a manager or a superior or the company. And yeah, if you work your tail off, you might be able to increase it a bit, but there's very little discretion there. If you can generate multiple income streams, it takes some of the pressure off that primary income stream. And what some people do with trading is that they'll start small. And trading will sort of pay for luxury items initially, maybe a dinner out once a month. And then as the trading account grows, maybe it becomes an annual family holiday. And then over time, maybe the trading income almost replaces or even exceeds the career income. And at that point, you've got options. You think, well, do I need to stay in this job that I find unrewarding with this boss that I can't stand? Or do I actually go and do something more rewarding with my life? Maybe I'll take up that passion project or I'll start at that business I've always talked about doing, but always been too scared to do because now I've got an income from trading. And that second income, whether it's from trading or anything else, it can be your bridge to what it is you want to do rather than what it is you feel you have to do. 00:15:28 - Jerry Dugan That makes a lot of sense, because markets shift, too, right? They don't just stay perfectly the same like, this one. Industry will always deliver this kind of result. It ebbs and flows. 00:15:40 - Simon Ree Absolutely. Yeah. 00:15:41 - Jerry Dugan And I remember just a few months ago, there were people where I used to work that were concerned that, hey, there's a recession coming and inflation sitting at the same time. We got to be worried about people losing jobs. And here I am, like, I'm ready to go. I want to branch out and do my own thing, see what else is out there. And people thought I was a little nuts at first, but now people are excited. But it is important, I think, to have multiple streams of income to be able to manage it well. I'm finally doing that with my own life and learning more about it all the time. So I'm glad you're on here to share that with us. I love that you brought up that if you're a wage earner, you really are losing out, especially each year as the value of the dollar goes up. The amount we're earning, even if it goes up a little bit, it's really not keeping up with inflation. And you're not the only one to say it. Like, we've heard people in the news say the buying power of somebody's salary today is not what it was 510 years ago, and you see people getting frustrated about that, but you have a way of helping people beat that by teaching them how to invest, get that second income. What would you say are some of the let's see, I'm looking at your one sheet. I'm like, I want to ask all the questions at the same time. I can't do that, can I? 00:17:05 - Simon Ree They can try. How many? 00:17:07 - Jerry Dugan I remember the show is called beyond the Rut. So let's say somebody's stuck in the rut. They're not taking that leap of faith to invest in their future. What would be some of the myths that they're holding on to that they really need to kind of address and say, oh, you know what? They're right. That isn't the thing. I thought it was. 00:17:25 - Simon Ree Yeah, okay. That's a good question. I think when people are in a rut, often they're in a comfort zone as well. It may not be an ideal situation, but it's a situation that they're used to. It's amazing how quickly as humans, we get used to circumstances. And I think you need to realize that the really good stuff in life is very often on the other side of hard. All right. And it's just a case of doing something that might be dull or unpleasant or it might not even be dull or unpleasant, but it might take you away from doing other things that you like doing, like binge watching Netflix or whatever. But if you spend the time and sort of delay the gratification, so to speak, you can find that when you push through the hard life gets a whole lot easier and a whole lot better. Some of the myths that people will hang on to that they've been told their whole lives by Wall Street, things like 10% per annum is an amazing return and there's a very good reason why this myth exists. Okay? That 10% per annum is roughly the long term average annual return of the S and P 500. All right? And so Wall Street will tell you that you can't ever expect to beat the market. So just be happy with that and be so happy with it that you'll be happy to pay us a whole bunch of fees for achieving it for you. And look, 10% per annum, I'm not saying it's a bad return, but if 10% per annum is going to move the needle in your life, you either need a very long runway. So if you're in your twenty S and you got 40 years ahead of you yeah it can be life changing sort of by year 32 or if you've already got a million dollars saved up, 10% Brandon, that's 100 grand a year. That's going to be a comfortable income for most people. But if you haven't got 40 years ahead of you and you don't have a million dollars saved up, it's probably not going to be the financial solution you're looking for. Now everyone will tell the conventional wisdom is but you can't generate more than that without taking on excessive amounts of risk. And it's just a story that's been concocted. It's a myth that's been concocted because Wall Street has got no interest in the average bloke average lady taking control of their own financial circumstances and potentially embarrassing the returns that these professionals could generate for them because that they're going to lose out on the assets under management and the fees. 00:20:05 - Jerry Dugan That is huge because you're thinking about like compound interest and if I'm paying it out in terms of fees, I'm missing out on a lot of money. I'm sure that the person helping me is making a boatload. What are some things people could look out for to make sure they're not paying exorbitant fees and getting the most out of their money? 00:20:26 - Simon Ree Well it's a case of looking at the fine print and looking at what you're actually being charged and looking for hidden fees as well. So if you got a portfolio there may be a portfolio fee but if there are funds within that portfolio there may be fund fees as well. And the finance industry has gotten really good at kind of being a bit sneaky around fees and fee disclosures. So it certainly pays to read the fine print and get to the bottom of exactly what you're getting for what you're spending. Yeah. 00:20:57 - Jerry Dugan So good night's rest, plenty of coffee in the morning and then take a look at those documents. They're there for a reason right? 00:21:03 - Simon Ree Yeah. Maybe if you know an accountant who can help you with something like that. It might be a bit of money well spent just getting to the bottom of it. Yeah. 00:21:13 - Jerry Dugan What's another myth that tends to hold us back from growing our own wealth? 00:21:18 - Simon Ree This notion that finance is complex and investing is hard. Wall street has done a very good job of making finance seem incredibly complex, far more complex than it needs to be. And again, it's deliberate. There's a whole language, a whole jargon has been created in the finance industry and it's been done deliberately to make people who aren't part of the industry feel like outsiders feel like they don't know what's going on. Just make them feel like that. There's an asymmetry in the information. Of course there is. But it's nothing that people can't bridge. It's a gap people can bridge quite easily. So this idea that finance is complex and investing is hard is also a myth. It's all things that can be learned fairly easily. 00:22:09 - Jerry Dugan Wow. Are there any simple things that they could go through and do just to get started, to start kind of identifying stocks or funds that would be great for them? 00:22:22 - Simon Ree I'll give my book a little plug here. 00:22:24 - Jerry Dugan There we go. 00:22:25 - Simon Ree It's only $9, but I wrote a best selling book called The Tower of Trading, which, incidentally, is a tribute to Bruce Lee's book, the Tower of Jeep Condo. That's where I got the title from. Brilliant. And my book will walk you through how to identify trends, how to identify high probability moments in time to get involved in a trend, and how to exploit that trend using options. My book also goes through psychology and mindset, risk management, and how to make a trading business actually happen. So it's not a book just about a bunch of setups. It really is the way of trading. The Tower of trading or all of the aspects that need to be covered. Yeah. 00:23:07 - Jerry Dugan Now, do a lot of folks who invest in the stock market, do they really build their wealth through options trading? Is that kind of the secret sauce or is there a variety of other things? 00:23:18 - Simon Ree No, most don't. I mean, options trading has exploded in popularity, but a lot of it is just I think we had the crypto world kind of blew up last year, and a lot of those so called Djen traders have moved on to the options market, and good luck to them. But options is not something that you want to get involved in without an education. If you open up an options brokerage account without learning how to trade options, it's a bit like handing the keys of a paddle shift Ferrari to a 16 year old who hasn't had a driving lesson. It might might be great fun for a short amount of time, but it's probably going to end in an accident. 00:23:57 - Jerry Dugan Nice. Yeah. I think I've played with it with, like, paper money or pretend money. It's never gone well yet. I'm like that's. Fun. So I'm glad I haven't thrown real money into it yet, but it is something on my radar, so I'm like, yeah, I wonder, because I hear about it all the time. You always see a guy on TV wearing a nice, flashy tailored suit. Talk about options. But if you just dive right in, there's a whole language to it that's got to be learned. There's some math behind it, but I love that you're saying, get educated on it, get comfortable with it, and then go for it. Don't just dive right in. 00:24:34 - Simon Ree It's not get rich quick, it's get rich consistently. That is my mantra. If you're looking to get rich quick, you're likely to have a nasty accident. But if you treat trading the same way you treat a job, show up every day, diligent, work hard at it, the rewards will come and the rewards will scale. The longer you do it, the more they compound, and you'll find that the growth over time will be a lot greater than probably the growth in your income. 00:25:06 - Jerry Dugan Nice. And I think if we're connecting the dots to what we talked about at the very beginning, when we were talking about Jute Kin Doe gene, did I just say that wrong? I did. 00:25:15 - Simon Ree Close enough. 00:25:18 - Jerry Dugan What came out of my mouth, I know that was wrong. What was it? Jeet Kundo? We were talking about that, and we're talking about responding rather than just reacting emotionally. So connecting that dot there, from what I understand also, that when we're trading and we're investing, it's really important to. 00:25:34 - Jerry Dugan Look at the facts, interpret the facts. 00:25:37 - Jerry Dugan And not let our emotions take over the wheel. 00:25:40 - Simon Ree Oh, yeah. 00:25:41 - Jerry Dugan And so what are some things that we need to do to remind ourselves of that? Because I'm sure in the moment, it's like, no, I got to get rid of it now, or I got to jump in now. How do we know that we're putting ourselves in check emotionally? 00:25:53 - Simon Ree What I encourage every trader to do is write a trading plan, print it out, put it on your desk, and it is there. It is visible, it's within easy access. And whenever you feel that inkling to do something that you know is a little bit naughty, just reach for your trading plan and remind yourself of your trading rules. The same thing happens when you're in a trade and it's moved against you, or maybe it's shot in your favor and you don't know what to do. I get these questions all the time, Simon. I bought stock X-Y-Z. It's moved against me. I'm underwater. What should I do? And my first response is always, well, what does your trading plan say that you should do? And that's when they usually go, oh, you haven't got a trading plan, have you? You're going to write one. And so I actually give people a really good guideline on how to approach this and write a trading plan. In my book, that's how important I think it is. It's an ironclad agreement between yourself and you about what you'll do, really, in any situation. And if you've got a good trading plan that's with an easy grasp, you'll never feel confused or frightened or impulsive. 00:27:07 - Jerry Dugan Yeah. What kind of elements go into a trading plan? I know we won't have the time to really dig in and, like, how do you actually create one? 00:27:14 - Simon Ree But what are some of the key. 00:27:15 - Jerry Dugan Elements they have to have in a trading plan? 00:27:20 - Simon Ree You got to think about why are you here? Why are you doing this? Why are you trading in the first place? And if your answer is, because I want more money, you've got to dig a bit deeper. All right? The answer is never money. Do you know the parable? The parable of the quarter inch drill bit? Are you familiar with that one? 00:27:39 - Jerry Dugan No. 00:27:40 - Simon Ree Well, this is just an example of getting through to the root causes of our wants and our behaviors. I'm going to be sexist about this because I'm a man, and it's relatable for me, but I'm going to say a man walks into a hardware store to buy some quarter inch or to buy a quarter inch drill bit. Why does he buy a quarter inch drill bit? And your superficial answer is because he wants a quarter inch drill bit. Well, really? Nobody wants a quarter inch drill bit. Right? What do you want a quarter inch drill bit for? Well, he's buying a quarter inch drill bit because he wants quarter inch holes in his wall. Okay, you're getting closer, but come on, really? Who wants holes in their wall? Nobody wants to just drill holes in their wall. Right? Looks ugly, and it's messy. Okay, well, he wants quarter inch holes in his wall so he can hang a shelf. He wants to put a shelf up, and he needs the holes to put the screws in to mount the shelf. Okay, so he's bought the quarter inch drill bit so he can hang a shelf. Okay, now we're getting closer, but it's still not really the motivation, all right? What's been happening is his wife has been nagging him for months to tidy his study, all right? And he wants to hang this shelf because he wants the feeling he'll get when his wife says, wow, you've done such a great job of mounting that shelf. Your study looks great. I'm really proud of you. That is why he's buying the quarter inch drill bits. There is always an emotional driver behind it, and you got to dig deeper and deeper and deeper until you get to the emotional driver of why it is you want to trade, because that is what will keep you in the game through the ups and the downs, and there'll be fun parts, and there'll be tough parts. Trading is not. A one way street, and rarely is it a smooth journey. So you need to get very clear on your why. Once you're clear on that, it becomes a little bit more matter of fact in terms of looking at tools of the trade. What setups will you use? Will you be a trend trader? Will you be a counter trend trader? What systems will you use? What software packages? What sort of hardware will you use? What money will you allocate towards trading? What money will you allocate towards education and personal development? What money will you allocate towards hardware? What will be your risk management discipline? So these are all the sorts of things that will form part of your trading plan. 00:30:06 - Jerry Dugan Wow. So all the more reason to buy the book. That's where the detail is going to come in, guys. Now, as far as where people can find you, you've got your website. Taoftrading.com that's right. And then you're on Twitter, you're on LinkedIn. Simon Ree. That's R-E-E on the re. And where else can people find you if they want to be coached by you or to learn more from you? Or they just want to show up in Singapore and learn Jeet Kundo from you? 00:30:40 - Simon Ree Yeah. So Simon Ree JKD JKD is my Jeep Kundo website. But no, seriously, if you hit Tower Trading, people can find details of our educational programs, which they're more than welcome to Peruse. And if you are looking at taking trading as a second income more seriously, what I would say is buy the book first. It's only $9. It's almost like a try before you buy. And if you like my style and you like the book, come and check out the website, and maybe one of the courses in Options Academy would be right for you. Awesome. 00:31:19 - Jerry Dugan And again, folks, that book is the Tau of trading. How to build abundant wealth in any market condition. I'll have that in the show notes as well as links to Simon's website. Any final words of wisdom before we go? 00:31:32 - Simon Ree Simon yeah. Look, I think that trading is something that almost anyone can do. So even if you think you're not financial, you get confused about the stock market. You've never done it before. That is not a barrier to entry. We've got people in our programs. I mean, we've got ex hedge fund managers. We have got ex Goldman Sachs managing directors in our program. But we've got school teachers and yoga teachers and engineers and people with no financial background and people from all over the world. So there are really no barriers to entry. If you know how to use a PC, you can do this. 00:32:11 - Jerry Dugan Fantastic. Simon I'm glad we were able to connect. I know it's getting close to midnight where you are right now, so you probably want to get some rest. Thank you for coming on. 00:32:19 - Simon Ree Real pleasure, Jerry. Thanks for having me. 00:32:21 - Jerry Dugan Now, I hope you got a lot out of that conversation like I did. We talked about mastering emotions. We talked about the myths of the stock market and the value and importance of building multiple streams of income, specifically passive streams of income, where you make your money work for you so that you can build a more creative, joyful, and inspired life for yourself, for your family and your future generations. Now, if you want to learn more about Simon Ree or related episodes about building wealth on beyond the Rut, check out the show notes@beyondtherut.com. Three, seven, four. There you'll find a link to Simon Reee's website, thetowoftrading.com. You'll find a link to his book Thetauf Trading, and you'll find links to related episodes on beyond the Rut that talk about overcoming those fears, building wealth through multiple streams of income. Turns out this has been a subject that we've covered multiple times over the past eight years. And I want to just help you get inspired, encouraged, empowered, all those things to make your best life today. So till next time, go live life beyond the Rut. 00:33:33 - Simon Ree Take care.