00:00:00 - Bob Wheatley Pay attention to the stories that you're telling yourself because the subtitle of my book, our stories reveal the thing. Like, yes, it is talking about The Matrix and The Hunger Games, but it's also the things that you say, the things that you say to yourself. So for me, that looked like if I could only get to the big leagues comma, then I will have X-Y-Z. And of course that isn't true.


00:00:24 - Jerry Dugan Do you feel like you're in a rut in life or in a dead end job with no progression? I'm Jerry Dugan, and welcome to beyond the Rut, the podcast that offers you the motivation, inspiration and practical tool to help you build a life worth living. My show is here to help you break free from your limitations and find a path to success. Join me as I share encouraging stories and actionable advice on how to get out of your rut in life and create a vision for your future. Life is just too short to live stuck in a rut. Here we go. Hey, rudder nation. This is Jerry, and in this episode, I'm going to have a conversation with former pro athlete radio co host Bob Wheatley. Now, Bob just wrote a book called Our Heart's Desire. I had a chance to read an advanced copy of it, and I recommend that book. Now, a little bit more about Bob. I'd mentioned he's a co host of a radio show. There's a show out there called that singles Show. It's on Kcbi radio in Dallas. Although Bob lives in Nashville. Anyway, we're going to be talking about how the stories you tell yourself reveal a lot about the thing you want most. And we just talk about Hollywood, we talk about some movies. We connect the dots to our own lives to give ourselves some insight. So hopefully you pick up on all these movie references. We're not going too far back because Bob is younger than me. So chances are we're going to have some movies that we reference that make sense to the millennial generation, and then we'll talk about some movies and TV shows that make sense to my generation. I'm not a boomer. I'm a Gen Xer. I don't know why I had to qualify that for all of you, but I did just roll with it. So anyway, sit back, relax, grab a notebook and a pen. Here we go. All right. Hey, Bob, thanks for calling in. How are you doing?


00:02:14 - Bob Wheatley I'm doing great. Thanks for having me.


00:02:15 - Jerry Dugan Awesome. Now a quick shout out to Jay twining for connecting the two of us. Those of you listening in, you'll have heard that interview by the time Bob's episode airs, this episode airs. So, yeah, small world, because if you guys remember Aaron Thomas from way back when we talked about prenuptial agreements, is the guy who introduced me to Jay, who introduced me to Bob. And just eventually we're going to have Kevin Bacon on the show. It's where I'm getting that's right.


00:02:42 - Bob Wheatley That won't be my responsibility, but I am a couple of degrees away from Kevin Bacon, so you're on your way.


00:02:47 - Jerry Dugan Got to be. And then he probably knows Renee Zellweger. So my original host of this show, brandon, you quit too early. That's all I'm saying. We're so close, man. We're like four degrees, maybe ten something old school game on the show. Bob, we used to do like six degrees of separation factor fiction. We would have the guest say how they're connected to Renee Zellweger. And then Brandon, who was the original host of the show, would have to guess if what the guest just told us was fact or fiction. We played that game for about two years. He only got it right once. And it's because the guest told us, well, if I were to say something, it'd be this. And it was totally made up because she gave it away that it was made up.


00:03:25 - Bob Wheatley Well, given that Jay connected us, I'm sure Jay twining knows Renee, so that was a pretty short game, but I think we just won.


00:03:33 - Jerry Dugan We may have. So after this interview, I'm going to text Jay real quick. I'm like, dude, do you know Renee? Right.


00:03:38 - Bob Wheatley Let's set up the interview.


00:03:40 - Jerry Dugan Oh, man. But I know that's not why we got you on here. Now, a little bit about Bob, guys, is he went to college and he grew up Christian. His baseball career is longer than mine. A couple of years in the minor leagues. I got one red shirt season in college because I showed up and I probably wasn't supposed to be there. And they had to give me a season because my tuition paid for it. They got me the next one, though. They were like, Jerry, you were never good enough to play Division One A. Thanks for coming out. Good luck to you. And I was like, oh, man, they found me. They found me. They realized. But yeah. So you had that background. You are now the host of a show called that Singles Life. Wait, that single show. Sorry. I even had that 70s Show in my head. Just kind of remember that, and I almost flubbed it. And that airs here locally in Dallas, Texas, I believe, because your co host Kelly is based here in the area and she probably asked.


00:04:40 - Bob Wheatley That's correct. Yeah, it's sponsored by Kcbi.


00:04:42 - Jerry Dugan Nice. And I saw Kelly's name, like, I think I've come across her probably at Podcast Movement or something.


00:04:49 - Bob Wheatley Yeah, I've been super blessed to partner with her. She's been in Christian radio for 20 plus years, and I met her at church in Nashville.


00:04:56 - Jerry Dugan Oh, wow.


00:04:57 - Bob Wheatley And she was working with Wayfm in Nashville at the time we started our podcast. She had an awesome opportunity come up with Kcbi. So now we do the remote recordings. She in Dallas and Nashville. But it's been great. Really lucky. I'm very much the Robin to her Batman, but I'm not complaining. It's been awesome.


00:05:18 - Jerry Dugan Oh, man. Now you got to get her to do a Batman impersonation. Where are they? Where are the dates? Sorry, guys. Sorry. I don't know. It's the coffee. It's the coffee. So very good show. I listened in on a few episodes, the ones where you're giving away free chapters of your book, Our Heart's Desire. And then I listened a little bit to the most recent episode where you guys were talking about online dating. And I got to tell you, I was nervous doing my homework, though, on that show, because the last thing I wanted my wife to see was me listening to a show called that Single Show.


00:05:52 - Bob Wheatley 100% right. You got to be out front, center, honey. Like, I'm interviewing this guy tomorrow. Here's his little market research.


00:06:01 - Jerry Dugan Proof, my love proof. Read my book. Distracted, but very good show. It really does talk about being really complete with who you are and connected to God and having yourself kind of aligned and not really putting a relationship on a pedestal or as an idol. And you talk about that in your book also, that your one desire was to be married and live this Christian life, but it started to become your idol in a sense, I guess. Tell us about that. I mean, you had really what you thought was the dream girl, and then she ripped your heart out, threw it on the ground, and did that Mexican hat dance all around it. And I'm probably exaggerating, but still, I'm.


00:06:39 - Bob Wheatley Sure it hurt totally.


00:06:41 - Jerry Dugan Yes.


00:06:41 - Bob Wheatley So as far as the podcast, kelly and I were very clear when we sat down, we're kind of brainstorming the same, like, hey, what are we trying to create here? And we are both on the same page. This is not the how do I get it in 30 days show. That's not what we're going for because the grass isn't always greener when it comes to marriage. It's just different. Like, if you think about what Paul writes in One Corinthians Seven, he says that I being Paul, I have this gift of singleness. It's truly a gift. If I had it my way, everyone would be this way.


00:07:13 - Jerry Dugan Why?


00:07:13 - Bob Wheatley Because you're able to be wholeheartedly, devoted to God. When you're married, you have, in his words, quote, worldly trouble. Instead of focusing on the things of God, you're focused on pleasing your wife. You're focused on pleasing your husband. So as Kelly and I sat down and we created that single show, she's a widow. I've never been married. We kind of have similar heart to, all right, we want to help people that are in that season. Again, the grass isn't greener. It's just different. Who's speaking to that person? Who's providing the encouragement? Who's providing the biblical truth to that person? So we wanted to step in with that. And you mentioned in the book, and it's not going to give too much away. But yeah, that's essentially chapter one of the book where I'm this guy who wants that love story. And it wasn't like in an overly romantic chickflick rom.com sense. Like, oh, this guy wants a love story. No, what I really wanted and you and I were talking about this before we started recording, I truly believe that men are called to be strong, to be providers and to lead. And so I really wanted to provide that to someone. So that was from my 50% lens of a love story. I wanted to provide that for someone. And so there's really think about it. There's two heartbreaks in that first chapter where I talked about the girl that I did date for several years, the college girlfriend, and it ended abruptly and frankly, pretty ugly and the relationship that never was. And so I have that big moment where I'm praying, I'm distraught and like, God, why didn't you let me be that for her? Why didn't you let me provide that strength, that compassion, companionship? I believe those things to be good and right and true, and yet I don't have it in my life. And in that moment, what I realized after doing some unpacking and it was like, I have my right brain, I have my left brain. Everything talked maybe for the first in that moment because I've been reading the Bible cover to cover in a year ever since I moved to Nashville in 2018. So as of this recording, this is the 6th year in a row that I've read the Bible. That doesn't make me a pastor or a theologian or some sort of expert on scripture, but that does mean I am constantly reminding myself of God's master. There are undoubtedly hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of people that know more about scripture, like granular level. But I'm a Christian. I want to know the story that God has said, hey, this is true. This is what has happened. This is what will happen, remember? And so I was that person. That's kind of like the left brain in me. Like, I'm reading scripture. This is truth. And then my right brain. I have always been a reader and enjoy story. So I was doing research on how do you create a world, how do you how do you build a character, how do you create a story? There's not I mean, there's a bunch of different archetypes within story, but that story narrative, we understand it perfectly. It's the hero, the villain. You have the love interest to be saved in paradise. That paradise is quickly undone. You spend a couple hundred pages or a couple of hours, if it's a movie, trying to restore that paradise. That's a love story. And in the middle, you have the in my book, I put she doubts it, he proves it. But it's kind of the dance for like, she loves me, she loves me not. Is Rocky going to end up with Adrian? How does this work out? And as I zoomed out and I looked at the Bible, I was reading the stories, I was like, hold on, these are eerily similar. And I'm not going to believe that the apostle John or Paul writing to the church emphasis was copying the Lion King right for The Matrix. That's bad math.


00:11:19 - Jerry Dugan Bullet time going backwards.


00:11:22 - Bob Wheatley What I write about in my book is I do not believe that a Hollywood screenwriter sits down as a, okay, if God is the best selling author of all time, let's just copy his book and put a different face on it. I do not believe that. What I believe is they don't even have to. You could be somebody who's never picked up the Bible before and yet you for some reason will write that story. Hero, villain, love, interest to be saved. Star in paradise, end in paradise. Why? It's written on your heart as a human.


00:11:53 - Jerry Dugan Yes.


00:11:53 - Bob Wheatley It's what you believe to be good and right and true. You want that to be your reality. And we think like, oh, if we could all live in a movie, like too good to be true, it's like, no, if what the Bible says is true, that's exactly what you will have, exactly what you have. In fact, it'll be even better than tricks the Hunger Games or Avatar or Star Wars. Like it says in scripture that the mind of man has not conceived what God has planned for us. That's nuts. I'm on board for that. But again, that's why we tell these stories. And the title of my book our Heart's Desire. The subtitle how Our Stories Reveal the Thing We Want Most. Like we can avatar, we can look at games and say, hey, what are we seeing in these things? We're seeing strength, power, sacrifice, paradise restored. That's what we want most. We want God and life with him. Yeah.


00:12:51 - Jerry Dugan And I remember in your book you talk about even your perception of the Bible and its message. It was really trying to convey to us, took on a whole new meaning, or at least was the AHA moment for you when you took that step back and realized the Bible is telling that story to us. However, the hero isn't who we think it is. Like, we often think we're the hero in our story and that we're pursuing a love interest. And you pointed out something because you go through the cast of the Bible and what if it's not so much our story but it's God's story and Jesus is the hero? And I was like, what? I knew it. But then just to see it that way, it was almost like when I watched the prequels of the Star Wars films and then I went from episode three, the Revenge of the Sith where you had the fight between Obiwan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker.


00:13:50 - Bob Wheatley You were the chosen one.


00:13:51 - Jerry Dugan You were the chosen one. You were supposed to bring balance of the Force, not destroy it. And then you go into episode four again. Like, that was what I did. I watched them in sequence. And the battle between Darth Vader and Obiwan Kenobi took a whole new meaning to me that what we were seeing wasn't just the saga of Luke Skywalker, but we were seeing the rise and fall of Anakin and the restoration of Anakin. And then you have Obiwan Kenobi there as well, like, his storyline going through the whole thing, and I was just like, wow. The whole trilogy, the original trilogy took on a whole new meaning because of the prequels, because of the dynamic between Obiwan and Anakin. And so kind of the same thing. Like, the Bible had this AHA moment when, you know, for me, when I started putting the context of Jesus Christ, but really, I just put it in the context of Jesus. Like, what was his purpose? Why was he here? Why did he sacrifice himself? Not really thinking that the whole time he was the hero and we were the love interest. And I was like, mind blown. That was me just a couple of days ago when I was reading through the book to get ready for this.


00:14:54 - Bob Wheatley Well, and it's such a humbling realization, like something that I think in our flesh, we're going to take, hey, by the way, congratulations. You're not the main character of even your story, right? That's an extremely humbling thing. And I think in our flesh, we will push back on that. And for me personally, as far as the influences that I've been around, I'm an American. I'm also an athlete. So those two things that is such an anti American statement. Hey, you're a supporting character. You were born into a story that is about you. You are not the Capital P protagonist. That's, like, the exact opposite of what you see on TV. If we're rolling into some sort of playoff season, baseball, football, basketball, just attention to the commercials that you see, a legend will be born. You will never forget this. This is the most important game ever. It's like, no, there's going to be another game tomorrow or next year. It's just not. But the story that we want. This is so important. That's the exact opposite of what you see in scripture. Like, you think about what Jesus said, whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. That doesn't mean you have to die a martyr. Speaking metaphorically here, whoever surrenders, whoever gives up his life, whoever gets over himself, will step into a world that starts making sense. Because if you're walking around thinking you're the hero of the story and you might be listening to this and think, oh, well, I'm a w two nine to five job, I work in sales or I'm a mailman or something, I'm not a hero. That's not what this is talking about. People will say, And I was thinking about this as I wrote my book. I have my story and you have yours. And in a sense, that is true. Like, we were born into one body at one period of time. That's the lens through which we experience this world. But again, what Jesus said, until you lose your life, what you think is yours, your story, and you surrender like God, here it is. Here's my life. Until you do that, that things will start making sense. But, yeah, going back to what I said, what a humbling thing to realize. Like, well, what God calls me to be extra number four, that she walks for 3 seconds in the background of the film. I don't know about that. Right. But at the end of the day, any story is about the protagonist. And we keep using the word hero. That's not like a male female thing. Katnis Everdeen is the hero of The Hunger Games. It's the main character. The main character drives the entire plot of that story. So the reality is, if what the Bible says is true, we were born into a story about God. It's not about us. It's just not. If the chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy him forever, that's a story about him. It's not about us. Now, he'll bless us individually on a micro level, dropping into your 100 year story. But we are a sliver of this entire thing. So until we come to that realization that pain, struggle, disappointment, blessings, till we understand the master story, that those things can really make sense to us.


00:18:22 - Jerry Dugan Yeah. And I love that even though we each have a story within the bigger story, that's the cool thing. When you think about what is the connective tissue. It's the main protagonist. It's Jesus touching the lives of all these people. Especially when you hear a story of, like, a Christian who's experienced a miracle or experienced just the love of the church or just very timely help in a moment where everything seemed lost and you start digging in a little deeper. It's like, well, how did that guy happen to just be there at the right time with the right tools and the right attitude and just the right perception? And that person needed help. And there's a whole backstory there of like, well, yeah, I was actually going this direction and the road was closed, so I had to take a left, and then I took right. All of a sudden, there was a scene where people needed help and I'm like, Well, I'm a paramedic. Let me go and help. And you're just like, what? What made you become a paramedic? I don't know. I was a banker at some time and decided I had to hang that up and become a paramedic. And you're like what?


00:19:24 - Bob Wheatley Totally.


00:19:25 - Jerry Dugan Yeah. The guy who was the instructor for the paramedic school was like, yeah, I used to be. I don't know, I'm making stuff up on the fly here, but it's like that kind of connective tissue. And when you look at what's the common denominator for all these folks, there's something that's kind of guiding all that and putting all these pieces together that just locks it into place, and you're like, what?


00:19:47 - Bob Wheatley 100%? And you look at that seemingly complicated situation, like, how could this pop? A paramedic just sprung on the scene and all that stuff and all the backstory, and his grandparents met on a blind date in Spain or something. You shouldn't even be a thing. You're here and you saved my life. That's so amazing. If you zoom out, like, you think about any story, any story has an author has a master creator that knows the story from beginning to end that's able to perfectly manipulate. Like, it wasn't difficult going back to the Star Wars saga. It was not difficult for George Lucas to piece that together perfectly. He is outside of that world. He's not living in their time space in a galaxy far away, a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. Like, George Lucas doesn't live there. He lives in a different world. So he's able to perfectly manipulate that. And as I continued to well, again, I was just doing my daily Bible reading, right? 20 minutes, 30 minutes in the morning, I started seeing more story based or even specifically here, author based language. Like one of my favorite verses, Isaiah 46, it's verses nine and ten. God is speaking. He says, I am God, there is no other. I am God, there is none like me declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times, things not yet done. It's exactly what George Lucas did. He knew the end. I declare the end from the beginning. I know. And of course, we're getting like, there's a bunch of different Star Wars spin offs, right? You got the money grabs. Like, we're trying to see how far we can take this thing. But George Lucas had a very specific story in mind. It wasn't difficult for him to create it. Or psalm 130, 916, david's writing, all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. All of my days when I was 10, 20, 60, they were written in your book before they even happened. That's that author type language. And so now for me, as somebody who has written a book, and I talk about this in my chapter on the author, I know exactly what's going to happen to you as reader. In this case, in chapter 16, it's like, hey, spoiler alert, I'm going to drop you into a war zone in chapter 16. I already know that because I dropped you there eight months ago when I was sitting at my desk. I don't live in this world. The book you do, as the reader. You're consuming it page by page, day by day. There's a cadence to it. Not for George Lucas, not for Capital A. Author God. He's in charge of everything. So when that edict shows up on the scene, like, how could this possibly be? Like, what are the odds of this? 100% are the odds. God said that would happen? There's 100% certainty. It's like, as difficult. Like, but your grandparents met on a day like, this is wild. God with 100% certainty was going to make that happen. Yeah.


00:22:54 - Jerry Dugan I love that analogy that you put in your book, that when we're reading a book, whether it's fiction or nonfiction, we're being revealed the story as we read each page. But that author has already completed the book, so that author knows beginning to end how it's going to unfold, how it's going to impact the reader, what are the characters going to experience in the book? It's already written. And I love that when you look at the Bible, it's unfolding in that way as well. And each time you read, it, like you're going through it for the 6th time. It's got thousands of pages, so I'm sure you're seeing new things each time you go back through it, which is very different with the 100 times that my wife has watched Home Alone. Sorry, Liv.


00:23:45 - Bob Wheatley It's a family tradition of ours. We'll always watch Home Alone one and two, right?


00:23:50 - Jerry Dugan Yeah.


00:23:50 - Bob Wheatley Love it.


00:23:50 - Jerry Dugan Starting in July, going all the way through Christmas. That's us in our home. Then Jurassic Park. Whenever that's on TV, we have to watch it. And Titanic. But yeah, there's just some movies that you got to watch. So I love that, though. It's just the idea of reading the Bible, but really understanding that there is an author who has written everything, boom. It's ready to go. We still have free will. We still experience these things. Then you got the hero of the story, which is Jesus. It's God in the form of Jesus. You've got the love interest. That's us. That's who God is pursuing. And I'm like, yes, we're being pursued. And of course, what does every good love interest do in the movies or the books? We resist that. We push back. We rebel. We don't get it. We have that misunderstanding, but we're still being pursued. And then you've got the enemy, the one who is, like, throwing the wrench into things. He wants to break you up. He wants to make sure you don't have that relationship. And all that just comes together, which completes the story of the Bible, which completes the story that we're experiencing as a character. Maybe in the backdrop in the movies, I'd probably be that guy with the boom mic that actually dipped the mic too low and got in the screen. Or love it. Starbucks cup in the background of Game of Thrones. That'd be me. He wasn't supposed to be here, but he's here. So we kept him. Oh, kidding. So I know you can the book is already out. Is that right?


00:25:18 - Bob Wheatley It is awesome.


00:25:19 - Jerry Dugan And then they can find it on Amazon, a bunch of other places. I lost track of all of them, but I remember those on your website. There's a bunch of places there. And then you got your own website, Bobwheatley.com. Where else can folks find you?


00:25:35 - Bob Wheatley Yeah, I would just say as far as the book best two places, Amazon. And then like you said, just go to Bobwheeley.com. Actually, within the book, like if you're an audiobook type of person, there's a QR code, a couple of pages. You can download the entire audiobook completely free. So sometimes people if frequent flyer or spending time in the car, whatever, like, hey, audio is just easier. I wanted the reader to have both.


00:25:59 - Jerry Dugan So. Yeah.


00:26:00 - Bob Wheatley Amazon Bobwheatley.com. Or if you want to connect on social, just at Bob Wheatley. Love to hear from you. Yeah, this is better.


00:26:08 - Jerry Dugan This is brilliant because as I'm promoting my own book that's coming out in a couple of weeks, a lot of my friends come back and like, Jerry, you know, I'm a slow reader or, you know, I'm not that much of a reader. I'm like, hey, that's fine because I read it for you. Here's the link to the audiobook. Let me know what you think. They're like, oh, you got me there. Okay, I'll get a copy of that. So definitely if you don't like reading or you think you're a slow reader, get your hands on the audiobook, buy the book, and then just follow along and see he reads it to you. I love that. That is a great idea and actually just going to get nerdy on everybody here, but from a scientific learning psychology perspective, that's a brilliant idea because as you're reading the book, you're engaging the visual channel. Now, if you subvocalize the words, that means you're kind of reading it in your head. As you're reading it with your eyes, you're also engaging the audio channel. So you got two modalities hitting your brain at the same time. That's why when somebody's talking in the background or the TV is on, you don't understand what you're reading because you got that dissonance happening. But if you're listening to him read it to you as you're looking at the words, you now have the audio channel really actively being engaged while your eyes are being engaged. And it's just going to help stick. So there you go, that moment of nerdiness brought to you by Jerry Dugan. Now, before we go, Bob, any final words of wisdom? There we go.


00:27:27 - Bob Wheatley I would say because I don't know as you're listening to this, where you stand in terms of the things of faith, your exploration of Jesus, what you believe to be true, I would say pay attention to the stories that you're telling yourself because the subtitle of my book are stories reveal. The thing like, yes, it is talking about The Matrix and The Hunger Games, but it's also the things that you say, the things that you say to yourself. So, for me, that looked like, if I could only get to the big leagues comma, then I will have X-Y-Z. And of course that isn't true, but in exploring what I thought would come, of course the money and the fame and all that stuff, those are like, means to that's not means to a specific end. The end would have been comfort, maybe acceptance, love. In a word, paradise. I just want to live in paradise. I want to live in the place that we as humans were made to live in, which is a place where every tear is wiped away, every need is met. We have perfect companionship, and we know God. So as far as parting words of wisdom, I would just say, pay attention to the things that you want. Pay attention to those it's not, I want a car. It's like the car you think will provide something to you, like, go deeper and deeper and deeper. And what I truly believe is, you will always land on God. You'll land on God and his paradise, which, again, if what the Bible says is true, that's what our end looks like. We have a very good author. We have a very good ending. And that's why in the day to day, we're stuck here in the here and now. If you have a difficult experience, like, man, how do I possibly get over that? It's like, well, remember where we're going. Remember that this is not how the world is supposed to be. Like, God is on the same page with you. He understands that this isn't how it's supposed to be. We're all on the same page. He is trying to restore what you want. He's trying to restore what he designed. He's just going to do it in his way. And his timing that's, again, we have one author. We are not him. We have one hero, we are also not him. So it's just releasing the reins and saying, okay, I was born into the most amazing story ever written. In a sense, the only story ever written. The universe. I'm going to get on board with you.


00:29:51 - Jerry Dugan Yeah, I love that. Bob, thanks for being on this show. It was great to chat with you, man. I had a lot of fun having this conversation with Bob. I hope you did, too, because you were kind of there with us or we were with you, however you look at it. If you want to learn more about Bob's book, Our Heart's Desire or check out his show, go to the show notes of this show beyondtherut.com three, six, seven. There you'll find links to Bob's website, his book, his podcast and related episodes. I might actually link together the six degrees of separation here because Bob really neat guy. I don't know if you remember the episode with Aaron Thomas about a year or two ago. He's a divorce lawyer who specialize in prenup agreements. Anyway, Aaron introduced me to Jay Twining, who you heard last week. And Jay Twining introduced me to Bob Wheatley, who's a client of Jays. And then Bob introduced me to a guy that's coming up on a future episode, fred Stoker. And if that name sounds familiar to you, fred was one of the authors of a book called Every Man's Battle, talking about pornography, sexual sin. So all these guys are kind of connected all through Aaron Thomas. Really cool. So, yeah, all I'm saying is that when you go to the show notes, beyondthret.com three six seven, you will see, in a sense, the six degrees of separation of all these guests. Great people who came together to provide you with some value. That's all I've got. So again, beyondthrut.com three six seven, go check out the show notes. Share this episode with somebody you know and have a great day. Go live life beyond the rut. Take care.