All right. Hey, Eric. Thanks for joining me out of Indiana. How are you doing? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me. Awesome. I feel like it was just an hour and a half ago that we recorded for your show. 

Be on the to do list with me as the guest. Wait, it was an hour and a half ago. I think, I think you might be right. You are right. Oh, man. I like messing with people's concept of time because I don't know when my episode with you is gonna air and I, I don't know when this one's gonna air, but they're probably not going to be within an hour and a half of each other. But you can, but people could go listen to them like they can go listen to that one and then this one, you know, and of course, if they haven't already done that, you know, go pause this, then go back. Wait. Now, we're confusing. Never mind. Chances are, if my episode on your show goes live, I'm gonna squeeze this one in as soon as possible. It will probably be soon probably in the next two weeks from this recording. 

So, so everybody you're listening to. Now, now what happened to then just missed it when just now of all the things I could quote. Spaceballs lives in my head rent free. I same. OK. All right. So this episode is going to be brought to you guys by Spaceballs quotes. Awesome. Now, I met Eric in person uh in person, August 2022 in a town called Dallas Texas at an event called Podcast Movement. Um And that was the first time we met in person. But I mean, we shared and I confessed on your show that uh my team when we were a team and myself would follow your show beyond the to do list for years. Um Mostly because every time you type in beyond the rut and any podcast player, your show pops up first before you even finish rot. And sometimes after rut, it still puts your name there like, but I typed the whole thing. Uh Great show about productivity and getting the most out of your work life. Um And so, and you've been doing that for about a decade, is that right? 

Yeah, it was August of 2012. So at the time of this recording, it's now been 10.5 years, I think. Yeah. And, and the longevity of that or the, the consistency I should say is part of what makes that algorithmic. Are you sure you didn't mean beyond the to do list happened? Because so many other people have been doing it for so long that it kind of just wears the groove or a rut if you will. So my hope is somewhere out there, there's like beyond the golf course or beyond the bar. 

Actually, there is, there's lots of, there's, if you, if you go type beyond the and then podcast, I think, you know what, I think I might have some fun and see if I can see how many I can come up with that are out there because there are a lot and you'd be like, Man, Jerry Show really doesn't pop up. That was not my intent, but it was just to kind of say, you know, how many people have latched onto the, it's kind of like the entrepreneur on, you know, the this on fire and the that on fire thing. Everything's on fire. Uh Podcasting is on fire. I mean, I, I call my listeners Rutter Nation for a reason. 

Yeah, John Lee, man. Yeah. Yeah. Oh gosh, he's everywhere. 

You know what's humbling for me though is like, John Lee is like a celebrity to me. And then I'll talk about John Lee to like non podcast listeners. I'm like, hey, actually at podcast movement evolutions, I even asked everybody because of something I learned from John Lee from his presentations. And I was like, hey, how many of you know who John Lee DUIs is? And I had like 15, 20 people in the audience and like one hand like Mika Lee went up, I was like, no way. You guys don't know who John is. How do you not know? Like that was going through my head. 

I'm like, just snap out of that. Boom, you're still here. But in some ways that's a good thing because that means that the industry is broadening and there's people who and it's a, it's a bad thing too, but in a good way, it is a good thing because it means that the industry is broadening. And so there's people entering in and aren't aware of the history. And so, and they're interested, they're excited, they're starting and so new people joining all the time is the, is the pro I want to go with here. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And you know, people go for different reasons and like us from the older days of, of podcasting, we know who he is because he, you know, he was the guy who started like the Daily Show. Um and, and all that, not the Daily Show TV show, but the daily podcast, like one every day, one of them. 

Yeah, there were, there were people who did daily shows before him and he was the first kind of prominent in the, the business space that people were well aware of and had a lot of connections. What's funny is he started within like weeks of me, same thing, like we basically started at the same time. So it was really funny when we, we started comparing notes where we were like, oh my gosh, we started at the same time, we were at the same podcast. Uh It wasn't called Podcast Movement. What was it called? It was called Blog World. 

We were at the same blog world in New York City. Um Both trying to figure out launching, you know, what our show was and what it was going to be and launching it that same summer, we both went to it and, you know, talking to the same people and getting in the same insights and the same sessions. And so it was funny when we compared our notes that is somebody was telling me like, hey, Jerry, how do you get connected with all these old school podcasters? And I'm like, well, because I've been around for a while. 

These are the names. I know it's what I see first. I'm like, it's you. And uh you know, fortunately most of the time when I do that, people actually know who I am because of social media engagement. So, yeah, now, now folks, I didn't get you all on here and I didn't get Eric on here just to talk about actually. Well, I could talk about podcasting all day. 

So, yeah, beyond the to do list though, like uh I know you've had guys on there like uh not a um John Acuff, what's on there too. Yeah, John um multitudes of other people. I think Lou Man Jello at one point he has not been on. I don't know why he, you know what it's because for a long time, I couldn't crack the code of how, what do I want to have lou on for specifically that's productivity based because he wouldn't admit that he manages things. But I do or has that he's productive at all or that he's um that he has a handle on that. Uh But I do have a, I did get an insight when I was at his momentum conference speaking there um months ago that I thought, you know what? 

I think I've cracked the code. I turned to my friend Jeffy and I'm like, I know how to have Lou on. So Lou will be on at some point. 

He's a great guy. He's amazing. I had him on because of his transition from being a lawyer to what he does with P W radio and um really neat guy. Um Man. OK, man, we're just like geek out about all our podcast heroes here. Let me bring it back in. So beyond the to do list, it's about productivity. Um You've been doing it for over a decade. The why behind the show? Like, why did you hone in on productivity as the thing you wanted to have your message and your platform be about? Yeah. Well, I, I, I'll give you the, the superhero origin story of of the show. 

So, uh which is entwined with mine. And what, what happened was um I sitting summer picture this Eric Fisher. He's sitting in a cubicle the summer of 2005 and itunes as it was known at the time pops up on my Dell computer C RT monitor and it says I have an update and I said, great. I have a need for a bathroom break and a coffee refill. So I hit OK. And I went and did my cycle around, got back, sat down, took a sip of my coffee, looked at my computer and I looked over to play my music again. And there was on the left hand side, it said podcasts and I clicked in and I'm like, what is this? And I suddenly realized and it kind of blew my mind that it was radio shows that I could pause. It was, it was radio shows with Tivo. And I thought, oh, my world just became completely different because I now don't just need to sit here and listen to music to get through my data entry. 

I could listen and be entertained and learn and, and we're not even talking like portability. We're talking, I'm just going to subscribe. I can subscribe to shows and they show up like, what is this magic voodoo you have going on here? And so I, and I also instantly said I'm going to do one of these and that was the summer of 2005. So it wasn't till 2007 when I got started doing my own show with, uh, a co-host of mine. But I instantly knew at some point I was going to do a show. 

Um, and at that point also, uh, that summer I was, uh, I self not self diagnosed, I got curious and went and got tested and diagnosed with a DH D. And so I started to think, well, I'm spending a lot of time in the cubicle. I'm doing all these things and, you know, and so, uh finally in getting diagnosed with it, I realized, oh, I OK, great. And I was aware of getting things done and David Allen, and that was all kind of in the loop. That was all kind of coalescing at that point. Um But, you know, fast forward two years to 2007. 

I, my, a friend of mine working in that office and I, we'd go on our lunch break to his house where our equipment was already set up. Meanwhile, I was connecting with other people like Cliff Ravens Craft and other people that, you know, um online. And uh I, I mean, as he was getting started even and was getting involved with podcast communities and learning and growing and just absorbing anything I could. It was in me. And uh so we start that show and it was a comedy show because we're both right. And uh we did that all year. 

We did that all year. That was our Malcolm Gladwell, 2000 hour, 10,000 hours. I should say not 2000 and, uh come to the end of the year, itunes says we're one of the top 10 new comedy podcasts. A lot of people don't know that about it, about me. Uh, and then we took the time off and then we did it again for another year, like a year later. And then we stopped. And meanwhile, I started co-hosted on some different shows like with Cliff or others. And you kind of fast forward to 2012, January and Cliff says I'm going to phase out some of the shows that are on my network. And I said that's fine. 

I admire you for that. I applaud you for that because um cutting the scope and reducing the load makes sense, you can focus on the thing, the best things, the most important things that are either revenue driving whatever you want to call it. And at that point, I thought I'm gonna do my own thing and I don't know why, but I mean, I immediately thought I'm gonna do a blog and that thought lasted probably 10 minutes uh or a day or two. And then I realized, oh, why would you do that? Do a podcast? So that set me on my goal of like, well, what am I gonna do? And I thought Well, I'm interested in all these different things and I realized, well, one, I'm going to talk to other people and this was back before there was this plethora of, you know, rotating interview shows that's become kind of a one of the standard varieties of things these days when it comes to podcasting. 

Um, and I just started listing off names of people I'd be interested in talking to. Uh, I started listening off topics that I'd be interested in talking about with those people. And it just hadn't occurred to me yet. And then suddenly it was like, man, it seems like I just, it seems like I want free coaching and there's nothing wrong with that because the listeners get help from that as well. But what's the, what's the like, I, I wanna hone it in. What's the point I thought? 

Yeah, but you want to be able to step out, you want to have a focus, but you also want to be able to fringe loop in from the outside of that for um variety, et cetera. And so what I decided to do was after I was going through all those I realized, well, it seems like I want to talk to them about like how they're doing the work they do, how do they manage their time? How do they get creative or stay creative even when they don't feel like it, how do they, and I start going through this? And I'm like, it seems like a productivity show. And I'm like, yeah, and, and this is, these are voices in my head going back and forth. And I'm like, literally, like, almost literally. And I say to myself, OK, well, it's like a productivity show but it's not just productivity. 

It's like beyond the, to do, that's the name of the show. Oh, and then I heard kind of a, almost in a buzz light your voice. It's, it's to the, to, to the uh it's the to do list and beyond. And I'm like, there you go. I love that. And as soon as that clicked, it was just from there and put forward, it was like, OK, and, and what was great? And this is a secret. Uh I had a friend who was working with Michael Hyatt at the time and I knew I could get a yes from him because we, he and I had interacted a little bit because he was aware of me from cliff's show. And so I reached out and he said, and I, and I actually, I saw him at that blog world and I asked him, would you be willing to be on my show? And he said, yeah, I'd love to. And I'm like, I have a, I have Michael Hyatt. 

Yes, that's going to open doors for other guests and, and it just snowballed from there once I launched. Wow, man, it's so cool too. And, and you mentioned earlier that you, you gotten screened for a DH D and now you've got this show that is one of the top ones around productivity. You've had some big names. I mean, we named dropped a bunch already guys. Um How have you seen the show? 

Help you with getting things done with a DH D because my daughter, she got screened for it and it is positive and they asked her the question of like her and my wife because they were together in that, that room, like is, it's kind of hereditary. So who in the family is also diagnosed with a DH D? Is there anybody? And they're like, no, no, well, her dad is the middle aged version of her. And, uh, and they're like, yeah, he's like everywhere. Like how many rooms have a pair of his socks in them or, you know, where's this coffee right now kind of thing? 

Um, because I, I don't know where my coffee is right now. It's somewhere in this apartment. I think that I finished it anyway. Um, but somehow I get things done that. I think that's the miracle my family has come to accept somehow miraculously Jerry is productive in his life. Um And so they've kind of begun like observing me, like, what does he do to keep on track? Uh So in what ways though, has beyond the to do list helped you manage the A DH D? Yeah. Well, and that was the thing, it's like I'll jump back to that summer of 2005. 

So, one of the things was my daughter was born earlier that year in January 1st kid and, uh, she was born 10 weeks early. So, multiple kind of, oh, my gosh, what are we doing? And new parent, all that, you know, on top of that and then that as well, the diagnosis and I thought, all right. And I, and I tried, I did a prescription for, I don't know, a month or two and it just didn't, I didn't feel right. I, I felt that's not the best way to say it. Like I, I, I felt better in terms of performing and staying on task and things like that, but my sleep was going down and so it was kind of a give and a take and it's like, well, I'm not willing to, like, in some ways, I'm better in, in some ways I'm worse. 

Well, then I'm better off just not pay. I mean, then it's like, well, why pay for the drug? Right. And so, and rather than go try, you know, long arduous, try different things out. I just said, you know what, then why not put up some structures in place? And that's, and, and realizing that that's what I'd been doing all of life before then was just kind of saying, ok, let's check in, like, because I'm the kid who had like, you know, little um memo pad with the spiral Lee thing at the top and you'd flip it open and you'd pull out a clicky pen and you'd write stuff down. Like I was capturing things throughout the day as a teenager. Like what kind of a nerd teenager was doing? 

Like, well, I guess these days more because it's more ok to be a nerd. But like you raise your hand, I am raising my hand too. Like that's what I would do. And then I had kind of like, look, I would go through that notebook before the end of the, like my parents didn't have to tell him like I was such a nerd. My parents didn't have to give me a bed time because I would go to bed because I felt tired. And so, but part of my routine was, and that's, that's really key. 

Here is rhythms and routines and having things set up already, which I'd already been doing. So it wasn't, you know, that hard. A lot of what I've learned through the show is things that have been either augments or tweaks or additions or subtractions from those rhythms and routines as well as then integrating or allowing or, or uh uh collaborating, cooperating is the word I'm looking for uh with family members, you know, like you said, well, he's, you know, I, I don't know how he gets things done. We observe him like same thing with me. But how do I integrate. How do I, how am I, you know, how do I fulfill my roles in work in life in family, et cetera? Um when it comes to having that and a lot of it self-awareness, it's knowing me, knowing who I am like adding on to the A DH D diagnosis with strength finders with uh even the engram and adding on having those dimensions, having those extra drill down insights into. 

Oh I am that way. And here's how a healthy person that is that way operates. And adding that to the mix has been really good to have all those rhythms, routine structures put in place. Yeah. Yeah. And uh what I guess what are some of the things that you do? You, you mentioned the notebook is, has it always been the same notebook? 

I want to ask that one first, you have like three or four different notebooks or methods. I try to stick with one till it's done and then move on and I try to pull out what's in there. I try to, I think one of the things as, as the time has gone on. 

I mean, we're my, my daughter is now 18. So it's been 18 years, a little over 18 years. Well, coming up on 18 years, I should say she turned 18 in this past January um since that diagnosis. And I think one of the things that I've noticed is that the smartphone wasn't around at that time now it is, we've all kind of habitual ourselves into the symptoms of a DH D regardless of if we have, have it or not or have a diagnosis or not. And that has become an even more ever present thing to me. 

So, in answering that question, I've got to say like, one of the things I try to do is in talking to all these other people about how to get rid of distractions. Stay on focus, stay on task, complete things actually check the box is that you have to limit the inputs that you have to reduce them. You need to stop second screening you. If you're watching something, watch it. If you're using your phone, actually use it for what you intended to pick it. And like if you pick it, like, I don't even, well, it's over there. Ok? I was like, I don't even know where my phone but it's over there. 

But, but again, it's in do not disturb mode. Right? And so it's a lot of those boundary setting things. It's, it's having do not disturb mode in moments like this. Like the phone call is not going to come through while we're talking because I am with you. And uh it's a lot of those things, but getting back in the notebook, it's, it's the one notebook and it's for use till that's done. And there are intervals where you check it and there are intervals when you don't and there's morning routine, there's evening routine. 

There's during the day routine for work, there's during the day routine for when there's not work. There's weekend routine. Like, it's all those kinds of set up time bucketed. Like, because that's, that's our problem. Right. It's like we, we, it's not that we can't pay attention. 

It's that we want to either pay attention to all the things or the wrong thing at the wrong time. And I've, I've inadvertently in the past used the phrase muscle memory when really I was corrected and that all muscle memory, none of that, none of that memory is in your muscles. It's neural pathways. And so rewiring your brain has been basically the thing I've been do my brain, I'm not rewiring your brain, Jerry, I'm rewiring my brain rewiring my brain through the last 18 years and trying to do that with my kids and being like get off your phone. We're watching a show or, you know, or et cetera. 

It, it's to do that. It's rewiring to allow yourself to be bored, to allow yourself to be single purposed when you have a purpose or to allow yourself to have nothing at times, you have to have nothing to not have to be, you know, when you're, I mean, remember we used to ride in cars, just look out the window, man. Oh, that was torture for me and, and, and it was for me too. 

That's why we have podcasts. That's why they invented podcast, by the way. Um, but, but that's my point is like, you know, kids, kids can't even, but kids can't even do that these days. So, yeah, that dopamine fix is so stress. That's exactly it. I mean, I'm glad you said that because that's exactly where I'm going. 

It's like, basically it's the dopamine fix of having to have constant stimulation and because that it reinforces, um, that, that need, then you feel like you always come, you're addicted and you have to have it and because I'm trying to go the opposite direction, then I don't need to like, then I can uh one of the other factors that kind of plays in is like meditation. And again, can you imagine a person with a DH D doing meditation? No. Do they need it? Oh, yeah. And it's one of the things that's really, really helped is like you have a thought you allow and then you don't get, you don't beat yourself up over that. And that, and in a way it's not about the meditation at all in some ways. 

That's, that's how the A DH D uh gets worked out in my own brain and, and spirit is uh a thought comes up. I don't get mad at myself for the thought coming up. My brain's just doing what it's doing. It normally gonna do you acknowledge the thought and then you let it pass. Now what I'll do here's where the note it comes back in. One of the things that I will do is I'll have an analog note like a legal pad actually sitting over here with a pen, not the computer. And if a thought happens while I'm in focus mode, I pull that thing over and I just, you know. Oh, yeah, thanks. Thank you brain for reminding me that that yes, my dog probably needs to have a vet appointment at some point in the future. Thank you. Thank you for reminding me of that. 

I acknowledge you saying that thank you, slide it away. Kind of like a toddler, you know, and then, and, and the more you do that, the more it's like, oh, well, maybe I don't need to, you, you, you trust your brain trusts you and you trust your brain and it doesn't feel like it needs to interrupt you as much. It doesn't mean it's never gonna happen, but it does mean, oh, he won. He treats me nice. Two um He captures this, he captures the things he acknowledges the things that I say and three when he's done doing the thing that he's doing, that's important. 

He then does turn his attention to me and deal with those things and, and that's a time block. You've got to set up, which I do, but that's what you do. So yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because that's something I just started doing in the last few months because I get up in the morning and I, I spent some time in prayer and I spend some time reading and, uh, and journaling. Now, then I have a separate kind of pad of paper or, or notebook. Um, and in on the top of the page I put random thoughts while reading and, and they truly are random thoughts. It's things like, um, email Eric Fisher and ask if he'll be on my show. 

It's a uh you know, book podcast Movement at 2023. It's like, wait, I already bought those tickets but like, and I could be reading a book about um uh anything, you know, extreme ownership, but I'll have a thought in there about check the pixel dimensions on the banner that you're putting together for your website and, and it's like, boom. But before I did the same thing that you just talked about, I would be compelled to turn on my computer and look the information up real quick. I just did air quotes everybody because it winds up not being real quick. 45 minutes to an hour and a half later, I still haven't touched the banner dimensions of this image. 

I had my mind on and instead I've now researched a guest that's coming up in two months. I've now gone down this rabbit hole of what's going on in a country I don't live in. And, um, and it's like, oh, shoot, I've done it again. But having that has helped curb that. Yeah. And, and one of the other things then I, I'll add on to the, um, you know, you block out time for those specific things. 

Not, not just in, you know, broadly sensed, you can say, yeah, we all should be time blocking and we should, um, and you have focus blocks to get certain things done and, and, you know, for, for some of us with a DH D that may be harder. And like I was talking about, I may, you came up with, oh my gosh, I have three different things just during the time I was reading that I need to then go do. Um, one of the things that you can then do is say, ok, well, I'm gonna set up an hour and I'm gonna pull 35 things off there. I mean, you have to, you have to glance at that list and say, and triage it and say, ok, well, emailing Eric, that's gonna take couple of minutes probably max, right? That's fine. Uh, number two. So that, so that's one of them. 

Um, and what's, what's, I don't know and depending upon if it's a half hour, an hour fine, you, you take what you need, group it together, do it and depending upon if you're so, here's 22 pathways here, one half hour. Ok. Well, here's like 3 to 52 to three minute things and if you can sprint through all of those, then reward yourself for having gotten those, you know, checking those things off, stand up, move around, take a break, get off screens, step outside. Hopefully the weather's nice. There's some sun. In other words, all the opposites of what you're doing. Stop sitting, stop staring at a screen, stop being inside, stop. Um You know, if you were talking to somebody, be silent, if you were silent, go talk to somebody change it all up and reward yourself. Um You know, if you're drinking, if you find that coffee, Jerry, and then uh ultimately, that's what your plan is. 

However, if you're going to take an hour long thing and you've got longer tasks that are 20 minutes or so in there, do it like te technique where you do want to say, OK, you know what next you set a timer 20 minutes, let's fix that pixel and let's, let's do what we need to do with that. And then when that's done, my break is a reward and then come back, sit down and do another. And that kind of again, it's that acknowledgement of um you know, a cycle of QE um success reward over and over again and again, you're, this is the, you're training your brain, you, you're making, you're forging those neural pathways to realize, oh you one, you really can do this. Two, you can pay attention. Three, you're getting stuff done and, and four uh some other point that I would have made right here. Who was that free guy places? 

I love it now. Uh So that's like getting things done part, especially like when our brain is like, I want to do all of it all at once. So it's like that, that movie, um, everything everywhere, all at once that is going on in our heads. I love that movie, by the way. Great movie. Yeah. Um, now there are moments though, like those with a DH D have where they get hyper focussed. 

And, um, and I, I didn't think my wife noticed but she acknowledged it the other day and I'm like, wow, do you know she goes Jerry when you go into your home office at nine in the morning and I have to ask you at seven PM if you've had lunch or if you've eaten anything that day, I think. I know what it looks like. And I'm like, but I've gotten so much done. Look at my website. It's like a multi page website built out for my business. I'm like, but it's done and she's like, is it though? 

I'm like, no, I still have like, three more hours worth of work. But like, how much I've done? I don't want to get away from it and, and, but I mean, but that she's done her job though, she's broken me away from that. And now I'm like, what is that over there? She's like, come follow it. 

Um, do you have anything in place that helps you, you know, in those moments, you know, like, literally. Yeah, literally. That's, you put lunch on the calendar as a time block and even if it's 15 minutes, at least you stopped, at least you paused, at least you left your desk and at least you ate because sometimes, uh, one I forgot, I, I have been in the same boat. I have forgotten. I, like my wife would get home at 2 to 3 o'clock in the afternoon and I'd see her pull up and I'd go to say hi and then I'm like, oh, I'm hungry and then it kind of hit and it wasn't, I wasn't aware of it until then and good for good or bad. Uh, I wasn't intentionally, um, you know, fasting but I guess I'll take it and, uh, but that, that's the thing and then I realized, you know, what the days that are better are the days where I actually have it blocked in on my calendar. And it's a reminder. 

I mean, one of the things that's been a friend for me has been, um, the, the Amazon voice system that I'm avoiding naming by name. So it doesn't set off. Uh, yes. And I, I go the route of calling it, um, the, the call word that, uh, uh, you know, Star Trek did. So it's like C O MP U T, er, do this thing. It's my friend though. 

Yeah, you can change it to, to, to use that word and, uh, I've said it to do, like, I'll just be, like, set a timer for such and such time or for this amount of time and, you know, just to, because we get so in our heads we get so, like, that's the thing is, again, it's not that we can't focus, it's that we drill down quickly into maybe things we aren't supposed to or didn't intend to. And it's all about, it's all about having those moments of clarity and then using that intention to map out um our time and our energy towards those places and tasks and things and, and you know, only through um experience and um you know, wisdom over time, do we get better and better at that and then are able to check things off? Yeah, I even find myself giving myself room to let my mind wander. So it's like that's good. Yeah. And, and my brain loves it and then after the time block is done for like do whatever. Uh It's like I'm able to say, OK, this is the thing I need to work on, but I don't want to, I want to go back over here. 

It's like no Dora technique. Boom. Uh 20 minutes, I'll work on this one thing, no matter what. Shut everything off, get the phone out of here. Uh oh, look at my cat and I'll start petting my cat, but then, then I'm back, I'm like, boom. Uh It's probably the only reason why I was able to get a book out in the first place was time blocking. Uh You know, the, the journal I told you about that. You also do. So. Um I just love that. And uh now if folks want to find beyond the to do list, uh I'll, I'll just tell you guys right now, what you do is you start searching for beyond the rut before you finish rut. 

That show is right there. It's gonna pop up first. Uh He's been around a year and a half longer. So uh but true story though, like if I go to pod dot link and I search my show, even when I type out the whole phrase beyond the rut, it makes me hit inter before it even shows me my show. And I'm like, that's just the internet being me at least auto fill. I, I'll, I'll email the guys behind pod dot link. It's like come on, just give me the auto fill just, just at least when I type in the whole phrase. But uh go listen to a show. Uh John Acuff was the most recent episode. Um A lot of great talent on there and believe it or not, I'm gonna be hounding like I'm gonna go through your list and say, hey, you know, I heard you on be on the to do list and that's a, I, I admire you for picking up on one of my secret skills just to look at other shows. 

I wish I started doing it sooner to be honest. And, and, and ok, so, so the secret tip for other podcasters, what you want to do is listen to these people on other shows and then you hear what they're being asked and then come up with your own follow-up questions because you already know what the first answer is. And then you're like, oh, but you didn't ask them this, you can Yeah. So, yeah, and that's why I pitched to folks. It's like, hey, I heard your story here. I'd like to build off of that and bring this up. And I remember John Le do talked about that, like if you want him to share interviews he's done with you. Um because he does so many uh bring in something new that he doesn't talk about on any other show and he'll share that with his audio and you're like, yes, yes. Uh So, yeah, that's where you can find on the to do list, any place you go to listen to podcasts beyond the and then it'll pop up. But if, if not to do list and then you got it there and then your website is the same right beyond the to do list dot com beyond the to do list dot com. 

I had that one before. You also. Yeah, you Yeah, but I'm not after your show here, your website now, Jerry Dugan dot com. I'm one guy to not be good anymore so I can get the website but he keeps getting better. He's getting good at this. 

You know, I was in Vegas the other week I could have met the other me. So that would have been cool. Weird. Now, that's everything everywhere all at once. That is, yeah. I, I was thinking about reaching out to him um because my uncle Michael is friends with him on Facebook has no idea who he is. 

Hey, since we have the same uncle, he thought I was weird. That's probably why he doesn't talk to me but not the uncle but the other Jerry Diggins, that's not important. What is important is um before we go any final words of wisdom, there we go. Yeah, man, I I mean, here's the thing, a lot of people are going to ask, you know, hey, what's the best productivity advice you've ever heard or you know, things like that? And I'm like, honestly it's self-awareness. It's, it's knowing yourself. 

It's, it's spending time. No, I mean, again having the wherewithal like I did to even bother to get tested. That revelation kind of really helped push things along much further. But yeah, spending that time. Um really knowing myself and then, and adding on to it like I said, with strength trainers with or not strength trainers, strength finders and and, and honestly, I would start there out of all the places that if you're going to start with things, start there because it's going to reinforce positive things that you lean in on. You don't cover up your weaknesses, you lean in on your strengths. Start there. Awesome. I love that, Eric. I'm glad we were able to do a podcast swap. I would see you at the next podcast movement if not sooner. And I'm glad that we're like real life friends now. Thanks for having me, Jerry. Love it.