Ed Slover 0:00 Very often when, when people want to make changes, they want to make wholesale or sweeping changes. Sometimes stopping momentum in a negative direction is the first step to it basically is addition by subtraction if I can, if I can stop or omit certain things that are not adding productive value to my life. By extension, my life improves. Jerry Dugan 0:26 Hey, what's going on render nation. This is Jerry from beyond the rut, the podcast that shares encouraging stories and practical tools to help pull you out of your rut into a life worth living. And this in this episode, I'm going to be joined by a friend and colleague, Dr. Ed Slover. Edie is a professor. He's also a coach, a business coach, and he's also an author, all three of those things, you could be multiple things, he's also a podcaster, can you believe it, and we're gonna have a conversation about his patented quest model, and how you can apply the quest model on your journey in life to live the best life you can live. So if you read my book, beyond the rut, create a life worth living in your faith, family and career, this model can lay right on top of that thing to give you a little bit more structure. Because I just kind of tell you find out the route you're in, understand where you want to go and take action to get there. And it gives you some practical tips. But some folks want to live in more depth and detail. And the quest model gives you a lot of that I'm not going to steal Ed's thunder. So what I'm going to do now is say just sit back, relax, grab a notebook, grab a pen, because here we go. All right. Hey, how are things going in your neck of the woods? Ed Slover 1:37 I'm doing great. Jerry. Thanks so much for having me on your show. I'm looking forward to this chat for a while. Jerry Dugan 1:42 Oh, man, same here. Got a hand. Got a what do you call it? Yeah, got my hands on your book, quest, navigating the journey through life and business. Listen to some of the episodes from your show quest for life. And I'm like, Oh, this is gonna be awesome. We're gonna have a good time. So your day job, you're a professor, but you also have a consulting business. Is that right? Ed Slover 2:04 Yeah, that's correct. Currently, I'm an Associate Professor of Management Marketing at Grand Canyon unit Phoenix. About a year and a half ago, I started quest consulting. And that's actually grown into a second business called the quest for life. And that was largely named the quest for life podcast. Jerry Dugan 2:22 Ah, awesome, awesome sauce. Now, one of the things that stood out to me was the episode, the mindset of Yoda, which is from your most recent season, season three, at the time, we're recording this anyway. And you just kind of break it down that, you know, Yoda had this mindset for peak performance. And that's kind of your specialty folks who are succeeding in life already. How do you stay up there? How do you keep pushing the envelope when you've already hit your goals? So how do you keep moving that goalposts further out and keep performing at the high level, and Yoda for 900 plus years, for those that don't know, Star Wars, he did keep that, that's what I want to do is there's one scene you talk about where Luke Skywalker is about to go into this cave that challenges him to his core. And Yoda says something very profound. So I'm gonna go ahead and play that clip real quick. And we'll break it down and talk about mindset and Yoda and peak performance. Unknown Speaker 3:20 There's something that right Unknown Speaker 3:26 I feel called Be strong, The Dark Side of the Force, a domain of evil at any moment, God. What's in there? Only what you take with you Jerry Dugan 3:51 only what you take with you. That hit hard on so many levels. But you brought that up. So tell us about why that was so important. Like you know what's in there only what you take with you. Ed Slover 4:06 Yeah, that scene can be interpreted in a variety of ways. How I internalize that scene was Luke is full of self doubt, going through this training. And he had just finished his his training for the day with Yoda. And he appears into the cave and he felt cold. And he didn't know what that was, and he didn't know what he would find. And when Yoda said only what you take with you, it's kind of interesting because he was buckling his belt with his blaster and lightsaber. Then as he navigated into the cave, he saw Darth Vader or an image of Darth Vader approaching him with his lightsaber drawn, and a really short fight ensued where Luke decapitated Vader and moments after that the mask of Darth Vader blew off and he saw his face in the mask. And Luke didn't know at the time that Darth Vader was his father. But it's probably safe to say that he had some feeling or some anxiety around becoming what Darth Vader became. And it's this idea that we can, whenever we bring fear or anxiety or stress into situations, it's virtually impossible to level up our mindset, it's virtually impossible to perform at our best in those moments. And that's not revelatory, really, in any way. I'm not saying anything, anything that people don't intuitively know. That said, it's really difficult to get out of those out of those moments. So for example, just before we jumped on this call, my daughter texted me telling me she's nervous about her basketball game tonight, they're playing the best team in the league. And she has, she has some anxiety around it, and rightfully so she cares. One of the things I told her was start counting, start counting random numbers and focus intently on counting, because our brains, Jerry can only fully attend to one thing at a time. That's why multitasking is a myth. The best quote, multitaskers are those that are able to transition but back and forth really, really quickly. It's a process known as switch tasking, well, knowing that our brains can only fully attend to one thing at a time, rather than leaving my daughter, you know, sort of trapped in the labyrinth of her mind, in in anxiety and nervousness before the game. I'm having her focus on counting. And it's it's a bit of a hack in a way where after about five seconds, maybe as many as seven, the brain settles down the stress and anxiety and focuses in on what we're consciously thinking about, in this case counting. And she texted me, she texted me a few moments ago, I haven't seen it. But my guess is that is that she is calming down a wading tip off here in an hour or so. Jerry Dugan 7:09 Oh, man. Oh, that's so cool. It. It makes sense, though. Like when I was in the army, if your adrenaline started to get the better of you, and you started to get that tunnel vision, almost to the point where you're kind of all over the place. Taking a deep breath in holding it and just focusing on that breath in the moment really did a lot to kind of widen your horizon, like your view kind of broadened. And because of that, you're able to kind of really focus on the thing that mattered most, not just kind of darting around looking for the thing you need to go after. And it sounds like that's kind of the same hack there that, you know, and fear is just powerful like that. It has a way of really undermining what you know. And deep down inside you're capable of doing. It's like a friend of mine, Mindy Spiegel, she does patient experience, coaching and training. She describes fear, like, you know, I just walked up and I put a snake in your hands. And then from there, I started telling you all this information about to keep you healthy. But if you got a snake your hands, chances are you're focused on the snake. And that's that, that representation of that fear. And it takes a lot of effort to kind of talk you through and say okay, it's not a dangerous snake. It can't hurt me. Now I can go ahead and focus on this other thing. So I love that you brought it up. And Luke Skywalker kind of the same thing, right? Like, he's scared about what he's about to go into. And Yoda is telling him, you're only going to find what you take in there with you. And he winds up putting his blaster belt on with his lightsaber and his blaster. Because he's he's wanting I think you said in the episode, he's, he's looking for that extra and extrinsic motivation to take on what's in the cave, and what he really needed what was inside of himself to take on what was inside that cave. Ed Slover 8:50 Yeah, that's right. And we see the show up all the time with people, especially in the social media age, where most people tend to be motivated by external validation. So we It goes without saying that all of us want to be loved and accepted. It gets a little out of balance when we actively pursue external validation and have it having that validation tied to our self worth. Because what happens whenever we put our self worth in the hands of other people, and we don't feel validated, it wrecks us. The question is, the question isn't whether or not it wrecks us. The question is for how long? And as part of human development, this is this is a necessary step. For example, when we're young kids, we seek the validation of the adults in our lives. And that's a very normal thing, if for no other reason that we need to know what good looks like. And then right around the age of eight or so we start transitioning off of parental or adult validation towards social validation from our peers. And that continues on through teenage years and in Do young adulthood, this is all a very normal thing. Where it gets weird on us, is when we get into middle age, and we're still actively seeking the validation of others to reaffirm our self worth. Rather than sort of graduating out of that into a space where we pursue our own internal validation. This is the type of validation where we do things or engage in activities for the sake of doing them, particularly doing them. Well. You have a podcast, I have a podcast, we get gratification and validation for, for producing, writing, producing recording the podcast, because we value doing it well, we live out our values. And whether or not anyone else thinks the episodes are any good is independent of our view of ourselves for having done our best in the moment for the sake of doing our best. It really is an extraordinarily important shift in mindset as we progress out of young adulthood into adulthood middle age. Jerry Dugan 11:13 Yeah, we run into that when even in podcasts, we run into that where somebody could get focused on the downloads, and that becomes your measure of worth. And, and that's really not the case, it's are you putting out a message that is helpful to somebody, including yourself. And, you know, once like I myself came to terms with that, it, it didn't matter as much about downloads and download numbers or to people like my stuff on social media. It just, again, aligned back with who I am as a person I've never really cared about, you know, what somebody said was the measure of manhood, you know it, because it was often some kind of caricature, like, Well, you're a man, if you can drink a 12 pack of beer on your own, or you're a man if you own a pickup truck. And it's like, now there's some other things that are masculine that define who a man is in his character. Ed Slover 12:05 And so what you find is that is that it's always a moving target. Yeah, if we put ourselves self worth in the hands of other people, it always becomes a moving target, and ever hit it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. Jerry Dugan 12:17 I love that. So like the sense of fulfillment, though, when you're chasing something like that, what other people say this is adulthood? This is this is success. And it's that moving target? I mean, what is the impact on people? If they're chasing that anyway? Like they feel that's what I need to go aspire towards? Ed Slover 12:35 It? Really, they live in a world of shoulds? And shouldn't so at that point, it's like, well, they should have recognized my effort, or they should have, they should have praised me that they shouldn't have. You have tried to tear me down when we live in a world of shoulds. And shouldn't it's a Bermuda Triangle of frustration. Yeah, it's a and disappointment really. And the reality is living in that space, creates a negative feedback loop. Because all of a sudden, we look at our own self worth. And we really don't like ourselves because we, we believe other people don't like us either. Now, here's what I'm not saying. I'm not saying that getting praise and recognition from other people shouldn't feel good. It should. What I'm really saying is that the act of pursuit of other people's acceptance and recognition becomes problematic. If you do things for the sake of doing them well, which is internal validation. And you get recognized for having done that, well, it should feel good. Say thank you and move on. That said, if you're pursuing internal validation, and doing things well, for the sake of doing them well, and you're not recognized, it doesn't wreck you. You just keep doing what you're doing. Rather than rather than tying up yourself as other people think knowing that the the target is constantly moving, Jerry Dugan 14:07 because you're true to yourself, you know who you are. It's like the perfect quest to be on is to develop you and to live for you. And that's what I love about your book quest, navigating the journey through life and business and you know, the first acrostic because you got it in your book twice. But the first one really applies to life and that's quintessential unfinished abdiel Yet, oh, geez, I still messed up that word. ambulant. No, you got to fix me on that one. Stronger and transformative. And brilliant. They say that. Yes. Brilliant. So yeah, quest people. Brilliant. Brilliant. All right. Well, I'm leaving that in there. But that is, in essence though, that quest for your own life that quintessential like that's a big word for folks. What does that mean to be coin Essential in your life Ed Slover 15:01 really means to become the best version of yourself to the extent that you can become the best version of yourself. That's your your Quintessence. I happen to advocate that being being a better version of yourself, at least being fractionally better every day than who you were yesterday and then fractionally better tomorrow than who you are today is the way to achieve sustained peak performance. I know Dr. Jordan Peterson has referenced this concept over and over again, keep in mind that this concept of being fractionally better, you know, today versus yesterday, and tomorrow versus today has been around a really, really long time. He just has a platform to be able to communicate it and it resonates with people. And it can be in any area. That's the beauty of of this in the pursuit of our best version of ourselves. The first step is pursuing a better version of ourselves. Well, it could take the form of you want to be a better husband and or you want to be more patient, you want to you want to live out your faith in new and different ways. You want to be a role model for your kids, you want to navigate conflict more effectively, it's like pick something this, this has application to every area of our life. In order to become a better version of ourselves, we have to be intentional and make a decision and take new and different action every single day. And it this this can idea can get really overwhelming to people really quickly. Because a lot of people are in pursuit of perfection. And it's not about it's not about being perfect. It's just about can I do this one thing excellently today, or if I'm not, if I'm really really bad at it, can I do it a little bit better. And then at the end of the day, you can take stock and say, You know what I'm comparing myself to myself, I'm comparing this version of myself today to who I was yesterday, and I won today, I won today, any heck, Jerry, even if you didn't win today, you gave it a shot, you actually took the necessary action you didn't you didn't say you were going to and didn't follow up and you broke a promise with yourself. It's not it's not about that. It's about giving it a shot and learning from that worst case scenario. When we fail, we learn something when we obviously when we can, when we succeed with any one of those things, then we have a new solid foundation on which to propel ourselves to the next thing. So that's really the essence of of that Jerry Dugan 17:47 nice, and I love the part of you're comparing yourself to yourself, you know, how is I? Today compared to yesterday, or the week before or a year from a year ago, you're not comparing yourself so much to other people. And what I found in my own life is when I'm comparing myself to other people, I find myself bitter, I find myself I guess jaded, I'm just hitting up the Thesaurus here saying the same word in different ways. But I find myself not as happy, you know, my frame of mind goes to a dark place. But what I'm looking at myself the progress I'm making, you know, comparing today to yesterday, the day before and so on it, I feel accomplished. I feel hopeful. And I just I look forward to the next day when that's the comparison I'm making. I love that the next letter inquest stands for unfinished that you're never really done until your life is done. And so quintessential striving to be your best self and going through that process that journey and knowing that you're never really finished until the day is that's it for your life is very, very powerful to put together. And then that that third word, the one that gave me trouble earlier, EB Juliet, a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant joy. Ed Slover 19:07 I did that on purpose. I did that on purpose. to trip you up just Jerry Dugan 19:10 for me. I knew it. I know it. You published this book a year ago because you knew but love what it stands for. It's that zestful enthusiasm for life. And it just that that desire that you mentioned earlier to keep learning to keep growing. And to do it joyfully. You're looking forward to the next new thing. What have I maybe not said about ebullient? Ed Slover 19:36 One thing to consider is so when we talk about being zestfully enthusiastic, and I love that word zestfully enthusiastic, one of the things to consider is there is all all around us, Jerry It's in everything. It's everywhere. And our lives are so busy. Our lives are so fraught with distraction In our lives are just full of stress. And it takes, it takes new and different action, to be able to take a step back and find the all in everything. The older I've gotten, the more appreciation I have, or an for other human beings. I don't know why they show up the way they do in the moment. But I see, all I see is how they're showing up in the moment. But I find that to be extraordinarily interesting, I find all in them, I find all in nature, whether it's looking at flowers, or trees are animals, it's everywhere. But what it requires finding all requires us to slow down and take stock of what's in front of us not know, what I'm not talking about is our phone or another electronic device. And that has its own place in our world, and I'm fully accepting of that. But I'm really talking about putting the phone in your pocket, and taking stock of the sheer beauty and wonder that's around us all of the time. And when we're able to do that our level of enthusiasm for most everything increases. And this is not an aspirational concept. This isn't something where someone would look at me and say, Hey, this is too touchy feely, this is too dogmatically self help. This doesn't work. Like assuming I would I would push back on that and say, no, no. Why don't you? Why don't you do it once, do it once and find the or it will it reinvigorates you. And it allows you to become zestfully enthusiastic in that moment. And you'll you what you'll find is that you want more of those moments, Jerry Dugan 21:51 it makes me think about, I was visiting my mom and my stepdad. This is years ago, they live in North Carolina, in the Blue Ridge mountain area. And they always take us up into the mountains to see all these great views and vistas. And something stood out to me that's you know, as we parked the car we got out, we're looking around at all the view or the panoramic view all around us. And I was just soaking it in, I thought, Man, this would be so great to grab a pack the hike out there camp for a night or two, and just enjoy it all. But at some point, I looked around and I realized people are just sort of like parking, jumping out of the car, going to the restroom, taking some photos and jumping back in the car. And off they go. And I thought wow, they kind of just rushed through that they blew through the whole experience. Like they got some pretty pictures, but do they really take in what was all around them and hearing you describe that cessful enthusiasm for life. And that beauty really is everywhere. I mean, whether you're on a mountaintop, or at a beachfront or just at dinner with friends and family, you know that unplugging from technology, and just plugging into what's right there in front of you as far as people as far as far as nature, things that people have put together. It just really soak that in and think about it. You know, I don't know if you've done this Ed. But you know, we go to like a big venue. I just get it I kind of zone out and daydream for a bit. And I think about what did it take to build the stadium here. Like who was involved? What was that guy's life? Like, the guy who worked the crane that day? You know, how did he grow up? It just taking that in and realizing there are 1000s of people who've been involved in a project who all came together to do a thing. You know, that's, that's no easy feat. And it just, I don't know, I'm just kind of rambling on here. But I love that that zestful enthusiasm for life, always learning taking in what's around you. And we're just missing out when we don't slow down and just soak that in from time to time. Ed Slover 23:54 And you know, Jerry, the older I've gotten, the more I've realized that when we come across things where there's no downside, we should do them. Right. There's, there's, there's absolutely no downside to putting down our phone and engaging in more meaningful conversation with someone else. There's no downside to be at a stadium like you referenced and wonder how many people contributed to to this facility being erected in the first place. It's an engineer engineering marvel. There's just no downside to waking up in the morning and going for a walk or exercising or anything that adds productive value. There's just no downside. And when we find those things, and we then do those things, every area of our life invariably gets better. Jerry Dugan 24:46 Yeah, that's true. So true. Now to round out the quest across the day, you've got the S stands for stronger, and Kelly Clarkson just keep popping in my head every time you say the word stronger And then the tea transformative. But the thing that stood out to me when you were talking about stronger in your book was the idea of non disruptive changes, like if we want changes to stick to think in terms of the long term, not doing drastic, sweeping changes to how you do things, and non disruptively making those incremental changes. Tell us a little bit more about non disruptive changes and and why that's a really good route to go, especially for talking about long term impact. Ed Slover 25:30 Yeah, I spent 16 years in the commercial health and fitness industry, the first seven of which I got to travel across the United States and train trainers. Now, personal trainers tend to be really, really good at creating dynamic workouts for their clients. But they generally are poor, at least back then they're poor at the nutrition side of it. And in terms of weight management. One of the things that just seem to never work is when people would go guard rail to guard rail. And what's kind of interesting is that the trainers would have their clients do that they would assess what they're currently eating, and then they would recommend boneless, skinless, tasteless chicken breasts, brown rice and broccoli. Yummy. And yeah, right. Like, are you going to, if you like that, eat that. If you're not going to eat let that way when you're 60 Maybe there's a better way. I mean, if you like a cookie, I can get you really good results by you having a cookie you eating the whole box, however, is somewhat challenging. And so I came up with this concept of non disruptively, simple changes hard anyway, massive change is extraordinarily hard to maintain, especially in the context of nutrition and fat loss, because people put themselves in a state of deprivation. And we just can't tolerate that for an extended period of time. But what if we didn't do that? What if we pulled a handful of levers that allow us not only to reach our goal, but have it be sustainable over time, and in the book, I referenced a former coworker of mine, and she wanted to lose 50 pounds. And she learned that I was, you know, I had worked extensively in that industry. And we sat down, and I started talking to her about how the brain works with respect to food. And I gave her a couple of things to consider. And that night, she said she would apply what she learned just these minor tweaks. So for example, it's commonly accepted that it takes about 20 or so minutes for our digestive system and our brain to talk to one another. After we start eating. How you know, that is, if you've ever overeating a Thanksgiving dinner, where you just gorge on your first plate that takes you 10 to 15 minutes to eat, you're halfway through your second plate, and that signal gets sent and you just feel terrible for the next, you know, half day. And so I talked to her about those things there were others than beyond that. But I talked to her about those things that she was going out to eat that evening with her husband. And I asked her what she normally gets at this restaurant, it was a turkey burger with fries and some wine. I'm like, okay, order that, because that's what she enjoys. Yeah. And when you get the burger, cut it in half when and then just take a glance at your watch. Because you want to you want to basically start the clock on that 20 minutes, like then eat the half a turkey burger, the carbohydrate in the button, the protein and fat in the turkey burger will help you help trigger the satiety mechanism in the brain. If you want fries, I don't know have 10 or 12 of them. Just count them to yourself and then drink your wine. If after 20 minutes you find yourself you're still hungry. Drink eight ounces of water. If 10 minutes after that you are legitimately hungry, eat the other half of the turkey burger. Otherwise have have the staff box it up and I just saved you $6 for lunch tomorrow, right. Jerry the next morning, she pops her head in my office says good morning and then holds up the bag of the with containing the other half Jerry Dugan 29:20 of the turkey burger. Yeah, she's proud of it. Right. I remember that. She was extraordinarily Ed Slover 29:23 proud of it. And she's like, Ed, I can't begin to tell you how easy that was. I think I can do this. I moved, moved to a different organization about six months later. And when I had left she had lost 46 pounds. Wow. And what was what was extraordinarily gratifying. Two years ago, she and I met for lunch and I hadn't seen her for a couple of years. You know life gets in the way. And we get out of the car. And we see one another and like oh my gosh, you look amazing. What What if What have you been doing Like she's like, I've just been doing everything we talked about. And she she went on to say that her husband was upset with her. And I'm upset why she's like, well, he wasn't upset that I lost the weight, she ultimately lost 52 pounds, he was upset that she had to buy a new wardrobe. That's really the spirit of this of this idea. Now I frame that in the context of, of nutrition, fat loss, weight control, but it really, it really relates to anything that we choose to do, where if we, if we make these minor changes, it's not unlike a investing in a 401 K, where we make the investments and then over time, the investment compounds. That's really this idea of being fractionally better or making non disruptive changes. Jerry Dugan 30:49 We talked about it on your show, you asked me about my morning routine, and how did I get to, you know, waking up at 5am in the morning, when I don't have to get ready for work until really 730. And it was through incrementally dialing it back 15 minutes earlier each, each day or each week until I got to a point where five o'clock is a good point where I can go to bed at 10 I wake up at five. And I've now got two hours at least to pour into myself, take care of me grow myself get into shape, you know, read rights, all those things, spend time in reading the Bible in prayer, you name it, I have the time to do it. But I got there in increments, and and you're talking about like just incrementally making a shift and do the things you're used to doing anyway. And then just do one slightly thing different, it was more of like, in her case, you know, just change the way you eat in terms of piling it in versus take your time. And you had a trick the brain you hack the brain. I love that so much. So that in a sense kind of rounds out quest and and so if you're on this quest for a fulfilled life, I definitely recommend the book quest navigating the journey through life and business. And if people want to reach out to you and hire you, how are you available? How do they get a hold of you, Ed Slover 32:10 for business owners and managers, they can visit quest consulting service.com. So that service singular quest consulting service.com, for one on one or small group coaching to level up mindset and achieve peak performance, you could reach out to me at the quest for life.com. That's the quest in the number four life.com You can also reach out to me on LinkedIn, Dr. Ed Slover, I'm on there frequently. And I really don't use any of the any of the other platforms to promote my my business or businesses, LinkedIn as a great way. And then certainly through the websites. Jerry Dugan 32:48 Nice and any final words of wisdom. Before we head out. Ed Slover 32:53 I'd like to add one more thing, Jerry. And that is this idea of momentum. Very often when when people want to make changes, they want to make wholesale or sweeping changes. If if they're not eating the way they want to have that moving as much as they want to or their performance at work is substandard. Or some of their their relationships aren't going the way they want them to go. Sometimes stopping momentum in a negative direction is the first step to it basically is addition by subtraction if I can, if I can stop or omit certain things that are not adding productive value to my life. By extension, my life improves. That may be that may be an effective starting point for a great many people before we start adding all of these other things. Now clearly those things that we are adding are designed to improve our life. I mean, it's a it's a very rare person that makes decisions to make their life worse, we but we have this fixed time pie, we have 168 hours every week. And whenever we go to make change, we're trying to wedge this stuff in. And I'm not sure we can do excellently at those things. Maybe a first step, however, is looking at those things that we can remove or omit that actually don't add productive value. And again, by extension that improves our lives. And then we can start adding those things in that truly enhance our life and ultimately our performance. Jerry Dugan 34:36 I love that. It's almost like a credit card. You know, if you want to get out of debt, stop adding to the debt first. And then you can start digging your way out through those changes. And it was so great to have you on here and I'm going to make sure that I get our interview into the show notes as well so folks can listen to that from your show and get some value out of that conversation because you and I have been talking for the last two hours now. For everybody else, you only get 30 minutes, 35 minutes, but I've had the pleasure of having this conversation for a couple hours now. Thank you again, so much for being on here. Ed Slover 35:09 Thanks for having me. Jerry is a pleasure. Now, Jerry Dugan 35:12 I hope you got a lot out of that conversation like I did. I was taking notes the whole time. And I while I stay in touch with him, he's a friend of mine. He's invited me on to his show, twice, two different shows. And he's had me on both. And we just swap notes, we see how things are going. We just, we encourage each other and it's really cool to find somebody in the space at both podcasting, and leadership development. Where you can do that you probably want to know where to find the show notes. And that's at beyond the rut.com/ 359. There you'll find links to the quest model. Its website related episodes about living a fulfilled life, a meaningful life getting past those limiting beliefs you may be holding on to. And there you have it. I am glad that you joined me on this episode, and I look forward to joining you again on the next one. But you know, until then, I want you to go live life beyond the rut, because life is just too short to live stuck in a rut. Take care guys Transcribed by https://otter.ai